[HPforGrownups] Re: Questions for JKR

[Tim Regan]

No: HPFGUIDX 173206

Hi All,

 

I love this thread, partly because Dung gets her own theory wrong (IMHO)!

 

Dung said:

>>> Why didn't Voldemort tell Snape to side-along apparate to Grimmauld
Place with a gang of Death Eaters? <<<

 

Bart posited:

>>> I'm sure the spell would account for that; that's kind of an obvious
workaround the secret keeper.  <<<

 

Dung countered:

>>> I think you misunderstood me; since DD's death Snape was a
secret-keeper, when he went to 12GP he had his tongue tied so couldn't give
out the secret to the DEs, but what was to stop him apparating with some DEs
the same way Hermione apparated with Yaxley. But anyway, I'm absolutely
*not* sure the spell would account for it. When did tongue-tying hexes stop
people apparating? <<<

 

Dung, I love this inconsistency that you uncovered.  I started a thread
about it:

 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172949>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/172949

 <http://tinyurl.com/39fj8g> http://tinyurl.com/39fj8g 

 

Back to Dung's question for JKR: "Why didn't Voldemort tell Snape to
side-along apparate to Grimmauld Place with a gang of Death Eaters?" Maybe
he didn't; perhaps he forgot or overlooked the possibility. Both are
possible but lame, so let's assume that Voldemort did ask Snape to
side-along apparate to Grimmauld Place with a gang of Death Eaters. Snape
then had to use his fantastic ability to think under pressure, and his
skills in Occlumency, to feign a reason. Snape knows more spells, curses,
and jinxes than we do. Why assume he could not explain his way out of
Voldemort's request?

 

No, the real inconsistency Dung discovered is only apparent if you add
another level of indirection to the question. Here is what we should ask
JKR: "Why didn't the Order assume that Voldemort would tell Snape to
side-along apparate to Grimmauld Place with a gang of Death Eaters?" Now the
problem is revealed. The Order assumed that the tongue-tying curse and the
jinxes they placed on Grimmauld Place were safe enough. They did not worry
about the trio hiding out there. Why? What made the Order so sure that
Voldemort, Snape, and a phalanx of Death Eaters wouldn't side-along apparate
to the front doorstep, inside the Fidelius Charm? The reason the Death
Eaters couldn't get to Grimmauld Place was that Snape was not really on
their side, but the Order did not know that, and so their actions were
inconsistent.


While I'm at it let me deal with some other 'inconsistencies', that I do not
believe are anything like as tight as Dung's inconsistency above.


Dung:
>>> Why did you write in Quidditch Through the Ages that no wizards can fly
without brooms unless their animagus form can fly? <<<

 

Quidditch Through the Ages is a school text book. There are two
possibilities. Firstly it is wrong. Kennilworthy Whisp (its author) may not
have known of the magic Voldemort used to fly or he may of chosen to ignore
it to simplify matters for his young readership. My muggle school text
books, especially in chemistry, were full of simplifications that I latter
found to be untrue. The second possibility is that Voldemort invented the
spell he uses to fly after the publication of Quidditch Through the Ages.
Kennilworthy Whisp was telling the truth, and if he's still around to write
a second edition he'll have the opportunity to add the additional
information.

 

There's another 'inconsistency' I don't buy, but it's from another thread.

 

Toner pointed out:

>>> I thought Fenrir had a dark mark? During the tower scene at the end of
HBP, a group of DEs join DD, Harry and Draco up on the top of the tower, and
the rest of the OotP can't get up the stairs due to some magical wall except
for Snape. At the time, the reasoning for this was that only people with
Dark Marks could go through the invisible wall. However, in DH, Fenrir
cannot enter the Malfoy Manor, even though it appeared you needed a Dark
Mark to go through the gate (like Snape and Amycus in the first chapter).
Also, he couldn't summon LV because he didn't have a Dark Mark and was
relying on one of the Malfoys or Bellatrix to call him. From the situation
and Fenrir's attitude, he certainly would've called LV if he could. <<<

 

I think Toner also spots the way out:

>>> I guess you just explain away the magical wall in the tower under some
other context, but I'd thought I'd bring it up anyway. <<<

 

And Maeg added:

>>> I'm not sure about the Dark Mark, but I thought Fenrir Greyback's
inability to enter Malfoy Manor was due to his low status because he's a
werewolf. <<<

 

We don't know Fenrir cannot enter Malfoy Manor. We see people enter twice. 

(DH chapter 1) >>> The high hedge curved with them, running off into the
distance beyond the pair of impressive wrought-iron gates barring the men's
way. Neither of them broke step: in silence both raised their left arms in a
kind of salute and passed straight through as though the dark metal were
smoke. <<<

(DH chapter 23) >>> One of the snatchers strode to the gates and shook them.

'How do we get in? They're locked, Greyback, I can't - blimey!'

He whipped his hands away in fright. The iron was contorting, twisting
itself out of the abstract furls and coils into a frightening face which
spoke in a clanging, echoing voice: ' State your purpose!'

'We've got Potter!' Greyback roared triumphantly. 'We've captured Harry
Potter!'

The gates swung open. <<<

So it is "one of the snatchers" not Fenrir Greyback who fails to pass the
gates. But as Toner says we do find out that Fenrir lacks the Dark Mark.

(DH chapter 23) >>> Harry thought he knew why Greyback was not calling
Voldemort. The werewolf might not be allowed to wear Death Eater robes when
they wanted to use him, but only Voldemort's inner circle were branded with
the Dark Mark: Greyback had not been granted this highest honour. <<<

 

But Toner's right, we don't know much about the magical wall.

(HBP chapter 27) >>> Harry's heart leapt: so these four had not eliminated
all opposition, but merely broken through the fight to the top of the Tower,
and, by the sound of it, created a barrier behind them <<<

So the assumption that the barrier works by detecting the Dark Mark is
incorrect. That's an inconsistency in our understanding, not in the canon.

 

And then someone (the post is unsigned) said:

>>> The Dark Mark is just a spell isn't it. Which means it can be removed.
If Voldy needed Fenrir to have a Dark Mark for a specific mission, he can
give him one, no problem and then remove it latter. <<<

 

I don't like the unsigned posters explanation. The Dark Mark seems both a
mark of 'honour' and a badge of fear, not something to be changed when
convenient. 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dumbledad.

 

 





 



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