Prank and various responsibilities WAS: Re: Marietta

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 169665


> > Dana before:
> > Because canon does not imply that Snape was tricked into going
there by 
> > the people telling the story, it is only Snape that relays the
story in 
> > that way. 

wynnleaf
The "trick" was in the form of giving Snape information to lead him
into a life-threatening situation.  In other words, Snape wasn't under
Imperious (as far as we know), and he certainly knew the Whomping
Willow was dangerous.  What he *didn't* know (and here's the trick
part) was that he'd be walking in on a werewolf.

As regards whose "fault" the prank was, I think we have to remember
several things.  1.  Snape's motivation in wanting to get the
Marauders expelled was justified at least in what we've been told in
canon.  Being repeatedly attacked by people who gang up on you and
overpower you and who the school appears unable to stop *is,* in my
opinion, a justifiable reason to want the bullies out of the school. 
2.  Snape had seen Pomfrey taking Lupin to the Whomping Willow.  Since
he clearly *still* thought, even with this evidence of school
sanction, that Lupin was engaged in something that could get the
Marauders expelled, he must have thought there was something going on
which went beyond school sanction.  In point of fact, Snape was
completely correct.  Perhaps he'd overheard the Marauders discussing
their monthly excursions.  They certainly were not circumspect about
it.  But they were doing something for which they technically
*deserved* expulsion - running around endangering the countryside.

When Sirius gave whatever info he did to Snape, Sirius *knew* that the
Marauders were engaged in an offense worthy of expulsion.  He also
*knew* that the Marauders regularly attacked Snape.  Therefore he
*knew* that Snape had both a reasonable personal motive for getting
them out of Hogwarts and that if Snape discovered the Marauder's
monthly excursions, he'd be catching them in an offense that might
truly get them expelled.  

So Sirius was offering Snape, a person with a justifiable reason to
want the Marauders out of Hogwarts, the opportunity to catch them at
an offense that could expel them.  What Sirius didn't tell Snape, and
what he knew Snape wasn't aware of, was that the discovery of such
knowledge (what was in the Shrieking Shack) could get him killed.

Sure, in order to act on Sirius' hints, Snape had to break a few rules
like being out at night and approaching the Whomping Willow.  What
some posters are saying is that because Snape broke those rules,
anything that happened to him was his own fault.  Do we consider it
Harry's fault if he gets hurt by the macanations of others at a time
when he's breaking school curfew rules or other conventions?  This
isn't like Fluffy.  When the Trio tried to get past Fluffy, if they'd
been injured whose fault would it have been?  Well, their own.  The
first time was an accident, but later, they already knew Fluffy was
there and their decision to attempt to get past him was completely
their own.  But what about other times Harry has gotten into trouble
while breaking rules or conventions?  In OOTP, Harry is told by
Kreacher and by Voldemort's visions that Sirius is gone from #12
Grimmauld and is at the MOM.  Harry is being tricked, but he doesn't
know it.  Harry breaks rules and goes to the MOM on a quest which he
believes has merit (saving Sirius).  Is it Harry's *fault* that people
were killed in the process?  Yes, he bears *some* responsibility, but
he acted because his purpose (saving Sirius) had merit.  He broke
school rules in order to go, but we wouldn't say "Harry broke rules in
order to go to the MOM, so he's to blame for whatever occurred there."
 No, we tend to think his intent had merit, therefore his breaking of
the rules was justified.  And yes, I know there's a lot more to it in
the MOM event, but I'm focused right now on Harry's "fault" through
breaking rules in order to go to London.

Snape, in my opinion, also had a good reason for breaking rules. 
Wanting a group of guys out of Hogwarts who attacked him regularly,
ganging up on him, who (unknown to him) had a Map with which they
could easily target him or any other kid, and whose behavior the
school was obviously not able to control, *is* a reasonable motive for
breaking curfew and the Whomping Willow rule.  After all, Snape was
only risking himself on this quest.  And, in fact, Lupin and the other
Marauders were also engaged in highly dangerous activities going
beyond the bullying which deserved expulsion.

Sirius used what he knew to be Snape's valid motivation to get them
expelled (wanting those who attacked him to leave school), as a way to
lure Snape into a life threatening situation.

And before anyone wants to claim that the Marauders weren't really
bullies and that the only evidence we have of it is the Worst Memory
scene, please remember that JKR drew a direct line between James and
the Marauders and Dudley and his gang of bullies, when she named
James' rat friend "Peter," and named Dudley's rat-faced gang member
"Piers" (yep, that means "Peter").  The Marauders, from the evidence
of the Worst Memory scene, the Detention records, Snape's comments,
Sirius' comment in POA that Peter was drawn to the "biggest bully on
the playground," and JKR's tie-in to Dudley and his gang, were a gang
of bullies.

Snape had excellent reasons to want the Marauders expelled.  Sirius
knew he had good reasons.  Sirius also knew they were doing something
that *warranted* expulsion and that Snape was trying to discover it. 
Sirius gave Snape hints to get him to try to find out that offense,
but tricked him by luring him into a life-threatening situation.  Yes,
Snape would have to break a couple of school rules.  But breaking a
couple of school rules, that didn't risk anyone else, is minor in the
face of Snape's own good reasons for wanting the Marauders expelled,
and in the face of Sirius desire to put Snape in a life-threatening
situation.

> colebiancardi:
> 
> sure Snape had free will; so did Sirius when he set Snape up.  So did
> James when he saved Snape's life.  Sirius DID mean for harm to come to
> Snape;  James recognized it and Lupin did as well - Lupin thought it
> was not Sirius's shining moment there.
> 
> It was a trick;  Snape told the truth there; Lupin backed him up.  

wynnleaf
Correct.  Canon backs up that it's considered a trick even by the
Marauders.  Even Lupin saw it as Sirius' fault.  And Sirius thought
Snape deserved it -- not because Snape was out after curfew or broke
the rule about the Whomping Willow, but because Sirius thought someone
trying to get them expelled deserved that sort of prank.

wynnleaf