Why we'll get no further revelations that Snape is Really Evil (even if he i

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 169752


> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "wynnleaf" <fairwynn@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Many posters who believe Snape is either Ever So Evil, loyal to
> > Voldemort, or loyal to Dumbledore, but still really nasty, 
> speculate
> > that DH is going to have further revelations showing us new Bad 
> Things
> > about Snape.  
<snips>
> > But we're not going to find out those things.  Why?  JKR doesn't 
> need
> > to convince Harry, or any other character, that Snape is a Bad Man,
> > hates Harry, is disloyal to Dumbledore, and EVIL.  
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Mmmmmm, I think I am going to bookmark this post and come back to it 
> when we have book 7 in our hands. Because unless JKR said so, we 
> really really do not know **for sure** that we are not going to find 
> out all these things.
> 
> But here are the reasons why we still may find out about them 
> contrary to your opinion that we won't. 
> 
> The revelations of those things  are not just to show that Snape is 
> really really evil. It is very simplified view on them in my opinion.

wynnleaf
I need to be clear about what I mean.  I don't mean that we, the
readers, don't want to learn more about certain things.  Hey, there's
loads of stuff that I want to learn and JKR may or may not cover it. 
But whatever revelations JKR includes are to move the plot and/or
change and shape character's opinions and actions.  Any supposed
revelation that doesn't do that, isn't really a revelation, and with a
huge book and a lot of things to cover, putting a lot of time into
something that doesn't move the plot or drive or change characters is
pretty much pointless.

There's no reason to change Harry's, or any other character's opinions
about Snape for the *worse.*  Harry's and other character's opinions
of Snape are already about as bad as they can get.

> Alla
> They will serve to uncover Snape motives further - like Snape 
> possibly delaying the Order in OOP may show that Snape is acting 
> basically because of his life debt and nothing else, and especially 
> if life debt plays  a role at the end, that may play out very nicely.

wynnleaf
Sure, JKR could show that Snape is basically acting due to a life
debt.  Is that *new*?  No, it's not.  Harry *already* knows that Snape
considers himself to have a life debt to James.  This is not new and
doesn't need a revelation all about how OOTP worked out to tell Harry
the life debt exists.  The only reason to show more about Snape's
motives is if it's going to make a difference to Harry.  Just showing
Harry that Snape really is just as bad as Harry thought isn't making a
difference.

Alla
> Whether Snape tried to kill Sirius - well, herself said that we will 
> find out more about hatred between Sirius and Snape. It may play in 
> different events of the story for all I know.

wynnleaf
Thing is, JKR is a pretty good writer with a whole lot to cover in the
last book.  There's no reason to cover old ground over and over -- not
for a good writer.  She has no reason to go into the Prank if it's
just to convey to Harry (he's after all, the character whose opinion
she's working on), that Snape did something else Bad.  

Harry doesn't need to know anything further about Snape's motives
unless Snape Harry's opinion of Snape needs to change in some way.  If
Snape is just going to go on being evil and loyal to Voldemort, Harry
doesn't need to learn more about Snape's psyche, because it won't
change Harry's actions if it just confirms what Harry already thinks.


> Wynnleaf (earlier): 
> > No one needs to learn "by the way, Snape is really even Worse Than 
> You
> > Thought," because there's nothing much worse than betraying the
> > prophecy to Voldemort which led to the Potter's deaths, killing
> > Dumbledore, and being a Death Eater.  
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, indeedy, but if we are going to learn more about **why** Snape 
> did the things, we may as well learn more about why Snape did the 
> things - good or evil, no?
> 
> But say you right and we do not need to find out more revelations 
> about Snape if Snape is evil and only if he is good, so what does it 
> mean?
> 
> Does it mean we cannot speculate about it regardless? JKR surprised 
> me plenty of times personally. If you are **sure** what is going to 
> be revealed about Snape in book 7 and what not, well, good for you, 
> I mean it in the best possible way :)

> I am not sure and I am certainly going to use the last month and a 
> half when I **really** can speculate to the fullest extent.


wynnleaf
Oh, don't get me wrong.  Speculation is quite fun.  But when I
speculate, I have to ask whether the revelation under consideration is
going to really *be* a revelation.  Is it going to be a revelation to
the characters?  Is it going to change the way they act or how they
think?  That's what revelations in literature do, after all.

Alla, you said, "if you are **sure** what is going to be revealed
about Snape..."  I don't have any set theories about what exactly will
be revealed.  That's just not something I do.  But whatever *will* be
revealed has to have a purpose, not just filler to give Harry tidbits
of info.  What I *do* think is that any revelations about Snape will
not just confirm Harry's opinions, because if that's all they do then
they're not really revelations, they're just interesting bits of info
and they have no real point.

Harry hates Snape, won't trust anything he says or does, believes he's
a traitor, is an evil murderer and that Snape hates him.  At this
point, anything Harry learns that *only* confirms what Harry already
thinks has no real reason for being in the story at all. Of course, I
wouldn't be surprised if Harry thinks he sees some things early on in
DH, that confirm his opinion of Snape.  But these won't be real
"revelations."  The real revelations will have to change Harry in some
way.

Sherry
The several
chapters about Tom Riddle in HBP were the points of the book that put
me to
sleep every time. I hope we are not treated to another flood of *any*
character's back story. I thought that some years ago, after POA I think,
someone asked JKR if she would give us more back story on the
Marauders, and
she said no, not much, because it's Harry's story she's writing, not the
adult characters' stories.

wynnleaf
I know a lot of people don't care for the backstory.  Personally, I
love it and wish she'd do a prequel on it, even though she's said she
won't.  

However, I'm fascinated with her comments about the first chapter of
PS/SS which she apparently wrote between 10 and 15 versions of.  She
said that if you put them all together it would reveal the whole plot.
 "And in fact if you put all those discarded first chapters together,
almost the whole plot is explained."  Since I doubt if by "whole plot"
she meant all about Harry going to Hogwarts and his adventures there,
she must mean by "whole plot" the backstory of the series.  It seems
to me that for JKR, the backstory *is* the "whole plot."  While I'm
not sure exactly what she means by "whole plot," it's pretty obvious
she at least means that that backstory is really, really important.


Sherry
we have to learn about lily--please
let it be she was not so sainted after all--and whatever the important
reason Sirius had to die are all we'll get, I hope!

wynnleaf
These are good examples.  Many of us speculate on what's important
about Lily or why Sirius had to die and in most of the speculation
there's this implicit realization that the revelations about Lily or
about why Sirius had to die are actually going to be important to what
will happen in the book -- not just For Harry's Information (a sort of
FYI).  JKR mentioned something about why Sirius "had" to die.  In
other words, whatever Harry eventually learns about it will be
something that "had" to happen for a reason in the plot.   Whatever
Harry learns about Lily and Sirius will drive his opinions, his
actions, or something that affects the plot.  Harry's not just going
to learn once again that Lily was good at potions.  He's not going to
get a revelation about Lily which only serves to show him that she
loved him.  He already knows that -- for goodness sake, she *died* for
him.  The revelation of why Sirius had to die isn't going to be
redundant.  Harry won't learn that Sirius had to die because Bella
wanted him dead or Snape hated him.  Harry already knows that.

Sherry
Harry has to find and
destroy the horcruxes and figure out how to vanquish Voldemort, and that
along with the interaction between him and his friends and whatever
enemies
come along should be enough.

wynnleaf
Which just goes to show that we're all different about what we enjoy
about the books.  What I dread the most is a long series of horcrux
hunts, something akin to the TriWizard Tasks.  To me, the Tasks were
just vehicles to carry along the *real* story which had nothing much
to do with whether Harry could get an egg from a dragon or get past
the merpeople.  

wynnleaf