/What Harry "knows"/Draco's Birthday

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 169851

> Alla:
> 
> I do not think I understand. I am not even talking about 
completely 
> ESE Snape here, I think, but about the one that is Greyer than DD!
M. 

Magpie:
I guess I forget that people consider a Snape that goes back and 
forth in any way. To me it seems like he's either LVM or DDM. I 
don't think he can be both. LVM is completely black, because he's 
both loyal to LV and a jerk who hates Harry unfairly. DDM Snape is 
grey because he's a jerk who hates Harry but also committed to 
Dumbledore's side.

Alla:
> And I want to ask again, I guess. How is it forgiving a man, who 
> let's say committed a murder because he thought he had no other 
way 
> to help the good guys, but *without DD asking him to** does not 
> amounts to much?
> 
> Harry will still think that Snape murdered his mentor, but Harry 
will 
> be able to identify with Snape's reasoning, MAYBE, that he felt 
> helpless, trapped, maybe Snape indeed saw that there was no hope 
for 
> DD to live, but DD himself still thought that there is hope.
> 
> You do not think it will be **huge** thing for Harry to forgive 
this 
> Snape?

Magpie:
Isn't that DDM Snape? If he murdered DD to help the good guys then 
Harry has to accept that Snape's one of the good guys. Though I 
doubt that if he is DDM that's quite the way it worked--because like 
you, that really does seem like a bit much for Snape to have decided 
on his own. Besides which, I think the murder had to in some way be 
an answer to "Severus, please," which indicates something going on 
betten DD and Snape that they both know about.

It would still be very difficult for Harry to accept his murder or 
Dumbledore if that was Snape's improvisation. But yes, I do agree it 
would be a big deal if Harry had to forgive Snape and see him as DDM 
with that happening. What I don't think would be as big of a deal is 
if Harry forgave ESE!Snape, because practically that wouldn't amount 
to much. He would basically be like Peter Pettigrew II.

To me that's the distinction in Harry's forgiveness in ESE vs. DDM 
Snape. Harry hasn't forgiven Peter in any big way, but he rarely 
thinks about him. He's not tied to him with the kind of resentment 
he feels for Snape. He doesn't make Harry so angry. He's able to 
step in and say "Don't become murderers over him--let the Dementors 
have him." I don't think there's anything that interesting in Harry 
going from the way he feels about Snape now (which is more akin to 
when he wanted to kill Sirius--but far more personal and angry) and 
the way he feels about Peter now. 

If Snape is If he is LVM it seems like there has to at least be some 
element to why or how he's been LVM that is a slap upside the head 
to Harry and I can't see where it is now. Because it just seems like 
whatever happens it has to be a moment of serious re-cognition for 
Harry where he looks back at his own feelings and, like Lizzie 
Bennett, suddenly sees everything differently because he understands 
Snape's motivations. If Snape's motivations were bad ones, I don't 
think that's much of a change. 

And as an aside, this also applies to Dumbledore. I think Harry's 
got to be moving towards an understanding of why Dumbledore trusted 
Snape and how Dumbledore saw the world. I think we got a 
foreshadowing of it in the Tower in the way Dumbledore dealt with 
Draco. If Snape was actually a worse man than Dumbledore thought, if 
Dumbledore was tricked by Snape, it makes for ultimately a very 
different Dumbledore than DDM!Snape does. It's the difference 
between Harry basically forgiving or avenging Dumbledore as a victim 
and learning from him as a mentor and a guide. 

-m