Narrative technique and the SK switch/DD's correspondence with Petunia

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 170054

> Carol responds:
> I don't think that will happen, simply because JKR generally
> deviates from Harry's pov when he's absent or too young to have a
> pov. She does occasionally slip outside it to show him asleep...[]
> but generally, her pov character is Harry, and I see no reason for 
> her to switch to Petunia or Snape in DH.

Jen:  I see, she deviates when there's a reason the story is outside 
Harry's awareness.  One thing JKR's made sure of since Voldemort 
returned to his crude fetal form is that the reader gets information 
about Voldemort's plan at some point early on.  Without Dumbledore 
anticipating Voldemort's moves or Snape delivering information to the 
Order, the plan likely won't be presented to Harry as it was in 
OOTP.  I'd personally like to see Voldemort with his DEs or Voldemort 
and Snape in a chapter using a third-person dramatic narrator!  You 
mentioned it being unlikely for a Riddle House chapter and that *is* 
hard to imagine since JKR would need an outsider listening in 
providing the pov.  Although I wonder if Draco could serve that 
function for a chapter as one who appeared to be on the fence when we 
last saw him?  Also bearing in mind the limited omniscient narrator 
gets to limit what information is presented. ;)

It's possible we won't get any information about a plan, but it sure 
does seem like a perfect opportunity to show Voldemort gloating over 
the death of his long-time rival Dumbledore and to hear his 
diabolical (in his own mind) plan for disposing of Harry.  Because 
then we get to hear Harry tell Voldemort how Dumbledore had a hand in 
defeating him even from the grave, by passing his knowledge of 
Riddle/Voldemort to Harry.  Take that, LV!!  

I'm taking liberties now, moving up a point you made later on since 
it fits in with this discussion:

Carol:
> It's possible, however, that we'll have another "Spinner's End"-
> style chapter involving Snape and Draco; I'd like that because I 
> want to know what's happening with them, but it won't help *Harry.*
> Another possibility is a conversation between Harry and Draco that 
> sheds a bit of light on Snape, but the problem is, Draco is also a
> wanted fugitive and will be in danger of capture if he shows his
> face in the WW.

Jen: I could see this being a vehicle to learn Voldemort's proposed 
actions though, right?  I'd prefer Voldemort himself and the gloating 
so the fall is ever so sweet when Voldemort learns he didn't defeat 
Dumbledore by killing him, but Snape and Draco would serve the 
additional function of giving information about Draco.  I wouldn't 
expect Snape to give anything away about himself in such a scene (not 
that you are implying that).  I'm pretty sure there will be something 
between Draco and Harry re: the tower since Harry was the only 
witness on the other side to Draco being unable to kill Dumbledore.  
And for Harry's purposes, Draco may have learned something more about 
the tower from being back in the DE camp. 

Carol:
> What I think will happen is Petunia showing Harry the letters from
> Dumbledore (and maybe some old Muggle photographs that she's kept
> hidden from Vernon?). I expect that she'll tell him what she knows
> about the WW and Lily (and "that awful boy," and maybe even
> apologize for being so afraid that he'd blow up the house that she 
> tried to suppress his magic. (Or whatever--a first-person narrative 
> from Petunia resembling the one from Barty Crouch Jr. minus 
> Veritaserum.)

Jen:  I agree with how the information will be presented and want to 
add that hopefully Petunia will have all this memorabilia hidden 
under the creaky stair, an oddity in her otherwise perfect home.

As for an apology, I'm starting my re-read and still burn when the 
Durlseys drop Harry at King's Cross for the first time and he turns 
to see them all laughing at him as they drive away, thinking he'll 
never find 9 3/4.  Boo.  If Petunia has an apology in her, it's 
definitely come from all the changes in her own life since Harry 
entered the WW and from Dumbledore's scolding of her in HBP.  Prior 
to those events she doesn't exhibit any signs of remorse that I can 
see.

Dung before:
> Well actually, having a dead SK is perfect, because then nobody else
> can ever be told the secret again. The weakness of fidelius lies in
> the SK, while the SK stood firm, the Potters were safe, if the SK 
> had died without revealing the secret, their hiding place would
> have been completely safe.

> Carol responds:
> I don't think that swearing to die rather than telling the Secret is
> part of the Fidelius Charm, as Dung suggests. It's not an 
> Unbreakable Vow (which strikes me as very Dark magic); it's just 
> placing a secret inside a trusted person. Certainly, Peter didn't 
> die from revealing the Secret. He just violated the Fidelity placed
> in him.

Jen:  I don't think that's what Dung is saying.  I understood her to 
mean that if the Secret Keeper dies then the secret dies with the 
person and since the people alive can't tell, it's a pretty good  
deal for those in hiding.  

Carol: 
> I'm getting off-track here since we're supposed to be discussing 
> what Petunia knew, but I'm trying to sort out my own confusion. I 
> do think that Dumbledore, who informs people of what he thinks they
> need to know, would have told Petunia that the Potters were in 
> serious danger and that he feared that they had told the secret of 
> their hiding place to a trusted friend who was actually Voldemort's 
> spy, and he may have given the name of that friend as Sirius Black 
> (see Petunia's terrified reaction in PoA when Vernon 
> says, "Lunatic could be coming up the street right now!" Poa Am. 
> ed. 17). 

Jen:  I can't imagine why Dumbledore would reveal a suspected spy and 
that type information to Petunia even though it's highly likely he 
told her the Potters were in danger from Voldemort.  For one thing, 
any information he tells Petunia could put her in danger since 
Voldemort is known to use family and friends in order to get to a 
person.

Secondly, why would Dumbledore suspect Sirius in particular when 
Lupin was the one suspected by everyone else?  The only possible 
reason I can think of from the text would be that Snape 
attempted to persuade Dumbledore of that fact since Snape believed 
James died, 'too arrogant to believe [he] might be mistaken in 
Black.'  Why was James too arrogant to see the 'truth' unless someone 
had attempted to convince him otherwise and he refused to believe it?

I do think it possible Petunia knew of Sirius Black from overhearing 
Lily and James if James was 'that awful boy' or that Sirius was 
the 'awful boy' in question, called that because he was revealed as a 
killer to Petunia in POA and Harry did nothing to keep the Dursleys 
from thinking Sirius was a 'dangerous murderer' in GOF in order to 
use his godfather's name as leverage.  

Carol:
> (Presumably he promised her some sort of protection if she took in 
> her orphaned nephew, which she did "grudgingly, furiously, 
> unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took [him]." And she knows 
> about *Harry's* blood protection, which DD says is mentioned in the
> letter tucked into Harry's blanke, so maybe DD states there that it
> will extend to her family, too, of she takes him in, OoP Am. ed.
> 836.)

Jen:  I feel sure there was protection offered since Dumbledore 
thought Voldemort's supporters, 'almost as terrible as he,' would be 
looking for Harry.  Although it's such a circular situation to me!  
Taking Harry in means more danger for the Dursleys and the *need* for 
protection in the first place, so why not refuse Harry?  The only 
things I can suggest are 1) Dumbledore suspected Petunia and family 
were already known to LV and his DEs and were in danger regardless of 
taking in Harry or not or 2) there's *some* reason Petunia did it for 
Lily. 

> Carol responds: 
> My impression is that the christening or baptism or whatever
> ceremony made Sirius Black Harry's godfather took place somewhat 
> earlier than the Fidelius Charm, when they first realized that they
> were in danger.

Jen: Right, that's my impression of the timeline.

> Carol: 
> Or she could have feared that Sirius Black, Harry's godfather, might
> die, too. James gives DD the Invisibility Cloak, which rather 
suggests that he expects to die and expects Harry to live. 

Jen:  I suggested that in my first post and others thought that the 
Potters didn't expect Harry to live if they themselves died.  The 
Invisibility cloak is more canon for the possibility that the Potters 
did think Harry might outlive them and also suggests the Potters were 
aware 'marked as his equal' implied Harry wouldn't necessarily die 
according to the prophecy.

Carol:
> Maybe DD did tell them about the Prophecy when he suggested the
> Fidelius Charm, and maybe Lily mentioned her sister as an option if 
> anything happened to them and their intended SK. That seems to me 
> more likely than DD just taking matters into his own hands. 

Jen: I tend more toward Lily being involved in the request to contact 
Petunia than Dumbledore taking it upon himself, yes.

Carol:
> Better to take him out of the WW altogether if anything happened.
>(She might even have thought, as James would not have, that Harry 
> would be safer with her sister than with the recklessly courageous,
> Voldemort-hating Sirius Black. Just a thought!)

Jen:  Yes, my initial wondering was whether Lily thought the Muggle 
world would be a safer place. 

I have pondered how Lily felt about Sirius as Harry's godfather.  
Brave yes, utterly loyal to James especially, but the recklessness?  
That might give a mom pause!  I decided that in their particular 
situation, the main critera would be someone willing to die to ensure 
Harry lived and both agreed Sirius met that criteria.  Although the 
fact that Dumbledore did have a correspondence with Petunia and 
Harry's future seems at least one possibility, I'd say Dumbledore and 
maybe Lily wondered whether Sirius would be able to fulfill his 
duties for whatever reason.  (That's speculation on top of 
speculation but I'm going to put it out there anyway. <g>)

Jen