Say it isn't so Lupin!!!

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 170105

Carol earlier: 
> > Lupin himself says nothing about "betraying his friends." He says
that he didn't want to admit that he had betrayed *Dumbledore's* 
trust. Also, I don't see how admitting that his former friend Sirius
Black, whom he believes to have betrayed James and Lily to their
deaths, killed twelve Muggles, and murdered Peter Pettigrew, is an
Animagus and knows secret passages into the castle would be betraying
his friends, especially since Black is believed to be out to kill his
own godson, James's son, Harry. 
> 
> Dana:
> That is not entirely true because he also states this. 
>
> `I sometimes felt guilty about *betraying Dumbledore's trust*, <snip>
> 
> `All this year, I have been battling with myself, wondering whether
I should tell Dumbeldore that Sirius was an Animagus. But I didn't do
it. Why? Because I was too cowardly. It would have meant admitting 
that I'd betrayed his trust while I was at school, *admitting that I'd
led others along with me*
  <snip>

Carol responds:
Um, I guess you misunderstood me. That's what I just said. To quote
myself above, "He says that he didn't want to admit that he had
betrayed *Dumbledore's* trust."

What he didn't say, AFAIK, is that he would betraying his *friends" by
telling DD. He's protecting himself, not them, as far as I can see. So
your quotes reinforced my point rather than countering it. What I'm
looking for, and don't see in your response, is how admitting to DD
that Black (whom he thinks murdered Harry, betrayed James, and is out
to kill James's son) would be betraying Peter or James. (And why would
he care if it betrays Sirius, if Sirius is a murderer?) 

I agree that he admits to betraying DD's trust, but I already said
that and it's not what I'm talking about. I'm asking where he say that
he thought he would be betraying his friends.

> 
> Carol:
> > As for the secret that made his life worth living and gave him the
best time he ever had, he knew himself that he was endangering the
people of Hogsmeade. And how would admitting that his friends had
become Animagi out of friendship for him be betraying them? <snip>
> 
> Dana: 
> Because it was them who made these adventures possible and who kept
Lupin from actually harming others. Lupin would never have been able
to roam Hogsmeade without them. He would never even have left the
shack if they had not become animagi for him. What the marauders did
was not just Lupin the werewolf doing these things but what they as a
unit did. James and Sirius were as much responsible for leading Lupin
to these dangerous situations as they were convinced that their 
animagus forms could keep a werewolf in check. You can't put all the 
blame onto Lupin's shoulders because he was the one posing the risk.

Carol:
Okay, so all he needs to do is make it sound like it's *his* fault (he
"led" them into becoming Animagi and they did it all for him out of
the goodness of their hearts). That's not betraying them, it's being
grateful to them. Besides, two of them are dead, so he thinks, and can
hardly get in trouble for being illegal Animagi, and the other is out
to kill Harry, so he thinks. so, really, doesn't he owe it to James
and the supposedly loyal, dead Peter--not to mention to James's son,
Harry--to reveal that Sirius is an Animagus who can find his way into
the castle?




Carol earlier:
> > Lupin, AFAWK, believes that Sirius betrayed the Potters and is out
to kill Harry, and even if he secretly can't quite believe it, he 
still owes it to Harry and to James to tell Dumbledore what he knows.
He certainly has no difficulty turning against Peter, even offering to
kill him, when he discovers that his "dead" friend was actually the
traitor, nor does Sirius, who has wanted to kill Peter for twelve years. 
> 
Dana:
> <snipped the rest of your post as you actually proof my point that
Lupin should think of himself as a werewolf first and as a human 
second and that it are not his human mistakes that count but him not>
handling his illness in an appropriate manner) 

Carol:
As I said, I'm not an ESE!Lupin supporter so we're on the same side
here. I just think you're giving Lupin too much credit for his motives
for not revealing to DD that Black was an Animagus who knew how to get
into the castle. And you don't seem to have answered the point in the
paragraph you quoted above. To repeat, IMO, Lupin owes it to James and
Harry to tell DD what he knows about Sirius Black, the man who is
supposedly trying to kill Harry. That's the point I don't see you
answering. far from betraying James, he'd be showing loyalty to James
by protecting his son.
 
I'm only talking (in this post) about Lupin's actions and motivations
in PoA, not about why he and Black suspected each other. I just can't
see telling Dumbledore how Black, who's supposedly trying to kill
Harry, is getting into the castle could possibly be regarded as a
betrayal of Peter and James, the two friends who are supposedly dead
because of Sirius Black.

Carol, hoping that her point is clear now