[HPforGrownups] Neither Harry nor his Scar is a Horcrux (Was Re: Voldemort's Age)

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 170334

Mike:
Thanks to you, Jen, I've changed my position. I'm going with the
simplest explanation is the best. Harry is not a Horcrux, but he is a
repository of a piece of Voldy's soul. < I will be addressing points
of Carol's, also found on this thread. Don't need to reference them,
I know em by heart by now ;) >

Debbie:
Not wanting to quibble with such a well thought-out post, but I think that
the notion that Harry is not a Horcrux here may be one of semantics.  As I
read the text, a horcrux is simply a repository of a piece of soul -- as you
say.  There's no reason to assume that Harry's scar has not encased the soul
piece; otherwise, why did it not escape?

Bart:
Murder rends the soul, but it doesn't destroy a piece of it; otherwise
horcruxes would be the rule rather than the exception, since it preserves
the torn piece. Left to itself, the soul is repaired, albeit not perfectly
(I used to know a man who was a sniper in Viet Nam. The experience certainly
left his soul scarred, but he was not left a soulless monster). With a
horcrux, you complete the process, tearing the piece of soul completely off,
to preserve it.

Debbie:
I'll have to quibble with this, too.  Slughorn states, "Killing rips the
soul apart."  Thus, any murder, with or without the intent to create a
horcrux, splits the soul into separate pieces.  A murderer who has not
created horcruxes has the capacity for redemption because the pieces still
reside in his body; he will be scarred, but the tear can be repaired.
Creating a horcrux is so much worse because it forecloses the possibility of
healing.

JW:
I share Bart's skepticism over the use of living beings. A
living horcrux would not be an appropriate foundation for a thousand-
year reich. Under this logic, LV's snake would NOT be a horcrux.

Debbie:
I agree with you, and yet I don't.  Dumbledore said it was inadvisable "to
confide a part of your soul to something that can think and move for
itself," at the very moment that he was suggesting Nagini as a very likely
horcrux candidate.  To me, the real oddity in Dumbledore's suggestion is
why, having surmised that Voldy set out to track down Ravenclaw and
Gryffindor items, he would have opted for Nagini without having completed
that mission.  Either it's a clue that Harrycrux is not impossible, or
there's a very unique reason why (like the diary, which served more than one
purpose) for Nagini to be a horcrux, or both.

The only rationale I can come up with for using Nagini is that the last time
Voldy lost his body, he resorted to possession of animals, none of whom
survived for long.  Perhaps if Nagini holds a part of his soul, he can
possess her without killing her.  Unlike Harry, who as the embodiment of
love is Voldemort's opposite so that possession is very painful for both,
she does his bidding willingly, so that possession does not overwhelm and
destroy her own life force.  Furthermore, Nagini and Voldemort seem fond of
one another.  (Heh, this sounds like a Dark Marriage - yuk!)

Mike:
This is where the uniquness of events at GH come into play. The
unblockable curse was not only blocked but rebounded onto the caster.
The curse that leaves no mark, somehow leaves a cut on Harry's
forehead. And one more unexplanable, never-happened-before thing
occurs, the torn off soul piece lodges itself in Harry. Harry isn't a
Horcrux, the piece wasn't bound by spell to do what it did, but
nevertheless, that's what happened.

Debbie:
Are we certain that the AK caused the scar, or is this an assumption we're
making based on vague references in the text?  For example, PS/SS ch. 1:

"Under a tuft of jet-black hair over his forehead they could see a curiously
shaped cut, like a bolt of lightning.  'Is that where--?' whispered
Professor McGonagall.  'Yes,' said Dumbledore. 'He'll have that scar
forever.'  'Couldn't you do something about it, Dumbledore?'  'Even if I
could, I wouldn't.  Scars can come in handy.'"

Why did Dumbledore cut McGonagall off like that?  Maybe JKR didn't want to
be too clear about what caused the scar.  Several chapters later, Hagrid
isn't any more illuminating:

"Never wondered how you got that mark on yer forehead?  That was no ordinary
cut.  That's what yet get when a powerful, evil curse touches yeh--"

A ricocheting AK flinging a piece o' recently torn soul at baby Harry could
be all the ingredients of a powerful evil curse.  It seems more likely to me
that Harry received the cut when he received Voldy's powers (and soul, in my
view), not when the AK was initially deflected.

Mike:
A second possibility occurs to me. This soul piece went into Harry
with the intention of *possessing* him. But Harry had "powers the
Dark Lord knows not". The soul piece was captured by a stronger soul,
Harry's soul, and Harry's soul now controls it. This would mean if
and when Harry figures this out, and figures out how to consciously
control this, he can do some real damage with it.

Debbie:
While I find it hard to believe that Voldy, in his moment of crisis, and
expecting Harry to be dead, intended to possess him.  Nevertheless, I like
the rest of your thought so much I'd like to tweak it for my own use. ;-)

Perhaps Voldy's evil soul piece was attracted to Harry on the "opposites
attract" theory.  Second, Harry's pure soul was able to capture the piece
and entrap it.  Third, and going with your premise that this isn't just an
ordinary horcrux, Harry's soul-piece (or his scar, for you unbelievers)
provides a real connection to Voldemort that both Harry and Voldy can feel.
Dumbledore points out that Voldy was not aware when the diary was
destroyed.  Either Harry's has more life because he is a living thing, or
his purity of heart has infused it with his own humanity.



Mike:
But Harry is still not a Horcrux. So this soul piece is not one of
Voldy's anchors. And it will not help him once the rest of the pieces
are freed from their Horcruxes.

Debbie:
I'm having trouble with your logic here.  There's no evidence that this
piece of Voldy's soul is dead; the scar connection strongly suggests that
this piece is quite alive.  Therefore, if the others are destroyed
(including the piece that resides in Voldy's new body), Harry's piece would
anchor him to life just as well as the others, and maybe much better,
because it has coexisted with Harry for so long.  Voldy has lost so much of
his humanity, illustrated by his snakelike features.  Could a Harrycrux
restore that humanity?

I know someone will ask how Harry could infuse Voldy's soul with love
without his own soul becoming infected.  This is Lily's doing.  Harry's
purity -- his ability to love -- is protected because of Lily's love and
sacrifice.

Mike astutely suggested that Harry could defeat Voldy, or at least do great
damage, by harnessing the power his soul has over Voldy's.  This is, in my
view, the key to Harry's survival.  If he harbors a piece of Voldy's soul,
upon discovering this fact he will assume that he must sacrifice himself to
defeat Voldy.  However, there will be a better way.  I have no idea what
that better way might be, and I'm not going to speculate (at least not much)
because I want to be surprised.  But the locked room and the veil are two
good bets here.

Debbie
who finished her first reading of HBP with only two convictions, one of
which was Harrycrux, so she can't let go


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