[HPforGrownups] Werewolves and RL equivalents (was:Re: Snape - a werewolf bigot?...)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 170410

Mike:
I'm not near as good at this as you are Magpie, so I want to ask your 
opinion, or anyone else that understands this better than me. 

Magpie:
Flattery with get you everywhere!

Does 
this little power play remind you at all of a similar power play 
between James and Lily, with Severus in the Harry role? I know the 
conditions are different, flirting versus passive-aggressive 
attitudes, Harry is clueless and not a part of the exchange versus 
Severus understanding exactly what's playing out and is the object of 
the exchange (as well as being tormented). And, of course, there is 
no audience for the Lupin-Snape exchange other than Harry.

But it struck me that James and Lily were being outwardly disgusted 
(well, Lily anyway) while inwardly friendly (or more). Conversely, 
Snape and Lupin are outwardly friendly but inwardly detesting (might 
be too strong for Lupin, but not Snape) each other. I'm thinking 
there is some literary term for this reverse parallel, but it's 
beyond my scope of learning. :-?

Magpie:
Good catch! I don't know if there's a specific word for it, but I do think
there's a parallel. Actually, it's something JKR uses a lot, having Harry
witness a conversation he gets is intense but can't understand. 

In the James/Lily cases it's I think especially important to the theme,
because of what Harry misunderstands. He doesn't get that Lily is
interested in James already. With Snape/Lupin again he gets there's
animosity and thinks Snape's hurting Lupin with a Potion and trying to
poison him while really Snape's again helping Lupin, but
passive-aggressively. Both scenes kind of point up how Harry has difficulty
when things aren't black and white. He'd be more comfortable if James/Lily
was just about hate and Snape/Lupin was Snape bringing him poison. Instead
both scenes are on one level about something positive, the mating dance of
James/Lily and Severus caring for Lupin (as in giving him potion, not
liking him).

> Lanval:
> This notion that the Hogwarts students's safety somehow depended 
> solely on Lupin taking his wolfsbane potion is, IMO, blown a good 
> deal out of proportion. 
> 
> Magpie:
> I don't see how it can be blown out of proportion. It's not like 
> we're given back ups for Lupin while he's at Hogwarts.
> <snip>
> Too much "everything's dangerous at Hogwarts" and the plots 
> of every book stop mattering.

Mike:
I'm in agreement about the importance of Lupin taking his meds, 
because he is in a school full of children. To me, it's the children 
in the WW, who have no defence against werewolves, that should 
rightfully fear them. The adults don't seem to be all that concerned, 
not counting that Umbridge woman. Even Molly, who has kids, doesn't 
have a problem sharing a table with Lupin. Hell, she tries to play 
matchmaker for him.

Magpie:
Molly, iirc, is openly nervous about Arthur sharing a hospital room with a
newly-bitten werewolf. It seems like she may have gotten used to Lupin
while still retaining her instinctive fear of werewolves. I admit I love
this undercurrent in Molly, the way she really does often seem to embody
your average person not above ignorance.

Snape's an interesting case, as you say. I wonder if this is because he
considers Lupin as a bit of a Fenrir Greyback, even if that's irrational,
because of the Prank. The main point that Snape may have about Lupin, which
works metaphorically with him being a werewolf, is that he only *seems*
like a nice guy but underneath really isn't. He's weak and can't be
trusted. Maybe that's it rather than a general fear of werewolves--like,
the DADA lesson could be another way of saying "more backups
needed--Lupin's at the school." He's striking out at Lupin via his being a
werewolf. (Which I think is bigotry even if he hates Lupin for being Lupin,
same as my position on Muggle-baiting.)

Mike:
Yes, this is what I'm thinking. The Prank gave Snape an irrational 
fear of werewolves that has carried through to adulthood and morphed 
into a prejudice or bigotry against people who are afflicted with 
lycanthropy. It's not just Lupin the werewolf that Snape hates, it's 
the whole werewolf community that he despises. He has projected what 
happened to him as the benchmark for all werewolf behavior. And the 
sad part is that appears Lupin was not *in* on the Prank. We may find 
out different in DH.

Magpie:
It does seem like that. Snape seems to hate Lupin as a personl, given his
response to Tonks' Patronus, for instance, but by hitting him via his
werewolfism it brings in other issues. The kids who sat through his class
on killing werewolves, for instance, probably wouldn't have gotten the
message that some humans who are werewolves are irresponsible. More like
just that werewolves are dangerous and you might need to kill one.

Though I wonder if what we're also seeing is people working through having
an actual relationship with a werewolf. For instance, some feel that the
Marauders are disrespectful to Lupin in the way they talk about wishing it
were a full moon, etc. It seems to me more about making Lupin's whole self
part of the friendship--they will talk about his condition casually and
make that part of their bond. Snape does the opposite, making the
werewolfism part of his hatred. 

I'd be interested to know if that was something he got over, somewhat. I
mean, I don't get the impression in later books that Snape really is much
upset with Lupin being a werewolf. I wonder if there really was something
that was gotten over to an extent, like the way Snape agrees to work with
Sirius and no longer rants about him being a murderer etc., even if he
still hates him. 

Lanval: 
However, about Lupin in PoA -- in the scene we're discussing, Lupin 
has had the benefit of the potion for the third full moon at most. I 
think he would still be quite happy with the novelty of taking it, 
and feeling its relief (his body likely still aches badly after a 
transformation, but there would be less discomfort because he does 
not attack himself). Or am I forgetting something?  <snip>
I'm so confused. :) But I still believe that Lupin had no reason to 
resent having to take the potion, at least not this early in the 
year, and shows no sign of doing so, not then and not later. 

Magpie:
I think it's a slightly different thing with Lupin. In the scene in
question, and throughout the year, I don't think it's the taking of
wolfsbane he doesn't like. It's Snape! 

I mean, Lupin would ideally not want to be a werewolf at all. But with that
not being a possibility he seems to much prefer having the wolfsbane. What
I see as his issue in this scene isn't resenting taking the wolfsbane but
the position this puts him in via Snape. Not because Lupin hates Snape so
much he can't stand to be beholden on him (though obviously that's not
pleasant)--I think he can take that. But when Snape comes in and is rubbing
in that he's a werewolf, I think Lupin absolutely hits back with his own
powerplay about the Potion. And in doing that I think he's doing something
sort of related to what Bart is describing. It's not quite the same as
eating an ice cream when you're a diabetic, but I do think the Potion is
just yet another thing that rubs in Lupin's position of weakness in
society. The wolfsbane is at once both a relief from his suffering and
another reminder of how much he needs it.

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