Snape's the Rescuer - Really?/Justice to Snape

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 170707

zgirnius:
<snip>
> He does not know what has happened since he was knocked out. His 
> continuing survival could be due to other factors - an escape 
> attempt by the kids, an attack by Dementors, a falling out among 
>villains, etc.
<snip>

Dana: 
Precisely he doesn't know but yet he assumes the worst. There is no 
logic to Lupin and Sirius taking everyone out of the shack while they 
could kill everyone IN the shack and it would take ages for their 
bodies to be found and it would have given Sirius and Lupin a pretty 
darn good head start for them to escape. Snape already knows he was 
knocked out by the kids because he did not want to listen to reason 
and he already knew from the listening in on the scene for more then 
10 minutes that there was no immediate danger. 

And no, I can't see how Snape's waiting and listening in on Lupin 
telling his story would classify as Snape believing Sirius is a 
murderer Harry needs saving from because the scene would have played 
out differently if he had. He would have rushed in and taken out the 
threat immediately but that is not what we see him do and him 
revealing himself also did not have anything to do with him seeing 
any kind of threat. Snape does not even take out Lupin until he wants 
Lupin to shut up and he never bounds and gags Sirius because the 
wandless Sirius Black does not posse a threat to Snape. 

zgirnius:
> But it is, this is human nature. Snape was not looking for reasons 
> to clear Sirius, so it seems reasonable to me that during an 
> emotion and surprise filled time in which Lupin manages to forget 
> his condition more than once, Snape might not add together the 
> disparate facts into the correct story which does not fit his 
> cherished beliefs.
> 
> Snape did not deny any plainly stated facts - the facts were not 
> stated plainly to him. 

Dana:
Harry and Hermione plainly state the facts to him and when DD enters 
the scene he immediately goes on to state to DD that Black is 
probably claiming the same fairy tale Harry is stating. Something 
about a rat and Pettigrew still being alive (PoA pg 286 UKed PB 
chapter "Hermione's secret") And DD indicates that it is indeed 
Black's story. So apparently he had already managed to process the 
information in just a few seconds because Harry and Hermione only 
relayed this to Fudge just mere seconds before DD walks in. Hermione 
also specifically states that Ron's rat was the animagus Pettigrew 
and then Snape tries to plead his case with DD that he did not see 
Pettigrew anywhere while we know for a fact that he did see Ron's rat 
as it had been pointed out to him twice. Also the mere fact that he 
needs to plead with DD is an indication that Snape knows that DD 
believes Sirius story but yet it isn't enough for Snape to back off. 

Snape indeed wasn't looking for reasons to clear Sirius because he 
had no intentions of finding the truth and as we see Snape really 
tries to shut everyone up because he does not want Fudge to change 
his mind about Sirius. He does not want the truth to come out and be 
proven wrong because he had been working all year to proof others 
wrong, meanly DD. 

Justice had nothing to do with what Snape wanted to accomplish that 
night. He did not go after Lupin because he was a good citizen and 
wanted to comprehend a murderer and his accomplice. He wanted 
justification for something that happened to him and he did not get 
20 years ago and he desperately wanted to proof the person who did 
not give it to him wrong -> DD. 

Snape in the hospital wing after he knows that his so-called evidence 
will not be enough to change DD's mind about believing Sirius's 
story, changes his focus to himself and that DD had forgotten that 
Sirius tried to murder him. That is when Snape truly reveals what his 
intention for Black is about. He does not state to DD; "remember he 
was the Potters SK and therefore it could only have been him who 
betrayed the Potters". 

Why would Snape try to persuade DD with something that had nothing to 
do with the charges against Sirius in the first place? Because it was 
not about Harry or the Potters or the death of Pettigrew or the 12 
muggles, it was about Snape's personal justice for what was done to 
him.  He does not want to hear anything that would exonerate Sirius, 
because it was not about Harry but about Severus Snape and only about 
Severus Snape and why he chased Lupin in the first place and why he 
did not immediately rush into the scene to put a stop to it. 

Also isn't it funny that Snape with as little evidence and just mere 
circumstances was able to conclude the Lupin must have been helping 
Black while this certainly was not stated plainly to him but then 
when the same amount of information, or even more actually, is stated 
plainly to him, he is suddenly incapable of processing the 
information? Which actually is proven in the scene that he does 
process it but he just chose to underline that he did not see 
Pettigrew and leaves out that he did see a rat present in their 
company that is no longer there if I might add.  

To me, Snape's behavior in the hospital wing and the things Harry 
hears him say to Fudge outside of DD's point of view,will never be an 
indication that Snape had moral justice on his mind. And if he truly 
had done it all for Harry then he, like Lupin and Sirius when they 
wanted to kill Peter for what he had done, would have listened to 
Harry because it was Harry that was supposedly in danger, it was 
Harry's parents that where supposedly betrayed by Sirius. 
Also Snape is such a good Legilimens as has been pointed out so many 
times he surely would know if the kids were lying but he is actions 
actually do indicate he knows they are telling the truth and why he 
yells at them to shut up. 

zgirnius:
> And one key fact was missing. That Peter was an Animagus he heard. 
> That Peter's form was on the small side, he heard, but he had no 
> reason to believe that Peter was alive. *That* was one of the bits 
> he did not overhear, and noone mentioned it after he made his 
> presence known.
<snip>

Dana:
Interesting because both Harry and Hermione mention this to Snape in 
the hospital wing and with the information Snape already had, it 
should have made him pause for a second and think. Hé I did see a rat 
and I did hear about them being animagi and I did witness Lupin and 
Sirius being very calm and unarmed and I listened to Lupin explain 
things to Harry and they did not kill me even though Sirius hates my 
guts as much as I hate him. Boy, maybe I've been wrong. 

But Snape has a tendency to never admit to being wrong in public as 
we only ever hear DD state Snape claimed he was sorry. If Snape had 
taken the time to listen and as Hermione points out would not have 
hurt him one bit, then Lupin and Sirius could have proved to him 
Pettigrew was indeed Ron's rat. But instead Snape yells at her to 
hold her tong because she doesn't understand and he does so again 
when she is talking to him in the hospital wing. Snape doesn't want 
to be proven wrong, he wants to be right and he wants Sirius to have 
a faith worse then death because it is the only thing that will be 
gratifying justice to fulfill Snape's personal revenge. 

Tell me one thing why would Snape even need to provide evidence to 
proof he was right. Sirius is already looking at facing the Dementors 
kiss and when DD enters the hospital wing he is not trying to change 
Fudge's mind about things. So what is Snape afraid off? Indeed that 
DD will believe Sirius over him once again. It is no longer about 
justice because Sirius is already locked up and only minutes away 
from getting his soul sucked out. It is now all about Snape trying to 
prevent DD from helping Sirius and because DD was present with him 
and Fudge when they went up to Sirius, it could only be Potter that 
helped Sirius escape. 

To me this WAS the turning point of ever believing Snape would be 
trustworthy when it comes to moral judgment because you will never 
know what he will think will be justified to do when it comes to him 
getting his revenge. He already believes it is justifiable to 
withhold information that could support the story of truth because he 
does not want the truth to come out. Interesting that it is precisely 
the same thing he is doing that Lupin has been accused of doing when 
he withheld information about Sirius being an animagus. So in this 
case Snape puts Sirius life willingly in danger because he does not 
want to believe that it was not James that was to arrogant for not 
wanting to believe that he might be mistaken in Black but Severus 
Snape himself who was to arrogant to believe he might be mistaken in 
Black. 

JMHO

Dana