The twins? (was: Dumbledore's Fall)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 170755

Pippin:
> > > IMO, Snape could have saved Dumbledore from the poison. But
> > > he never got the chance, because Dumbledore didn't want him
> > > to have it. The mission was more important. Snape was not
> > > allowed to help Dumbledore, just as the Twins were not allowed
> > > to go to their father in OOP even though he might have been
> > > dying, because it would have given away too  much. 

SSSusan:
> > Erm... Pippin?  I know I am only sporadically able to keep up 
> > with posting here, so this might be a long-ago expressed 
> > position/theory of yours and I've just missed it... but could you 
> > say what you're talking about here with the twins?  Are you 
> > implying they're ESE! as well?  What would their having gone to 
> > Arthur have potentially given away?  

Pippin:
> LOL! Pippin the ESE!Queen strikes again!....er, sorry, bit of pre-
> release giddiness  there. Note to self: must not giggle madly while 
> staring at screen :)

SSSusan:
Yes, yes, that's it exactly -- it's *your* fault, you ESE!Queen you!  
I'm so ready to expect ESE! theories and down-to-the-minutiae-of-
canon-backed hypotheses from you that I thought you were 
saying 'more' here than you actually were. :)


Pippin:
> But to answer your question,  the twins not being allowed to go to 
> Arthur is not a theory of mine, it's unvarnished canon, from OOP,
> ch 22.  The twins wanted to go to St. Mungo's as soon as they'd
> found out he'd been injured, and Sirius has to explain that he
> can't let them. 
> ---
<snip quote> 
> ---
> If Dumbledore had to die alone and in pain in order
> not to damage the Order's plans, he would do it, and he
> wouldn't thank Snape or Harry if they messed it up for
> him.

SSSusan:
Yes, Jen reminded me offlist of this segment of OotP (thanks, Jen!).  
I wasn't sure, still, if that was the parallel you were making or 
if... hee... you know, like you said, being the ESE! Queen and all... 
you were really proposing Something Else about F&G.  

I'm glad that you're not actually.  I can take all the questioning of 
the twins' antics and whether it's as awful as the Black Hat bullies 
in the series, but I don't think I am quite ready to accept ESE!
Greg&Forge, you know?

I guess my remaining comment/question, re: making that parallel with 
DD not allowing Snape to help him, is this:  Are you under the 
impression that there wasn't much left of DD's life to save?  I mean, 
if Snape could truly have saved him -- if DD had a LOT o' living left 
in him, as opposed to just surviving a little bit longer if he 
was 'fading' already -- provided Snape just had the opportunity 
to 'work his magic,' then surely DD wouldn't have decided that his 
death was less important than the mission, would he have?

Ack, I didn't phrase that very well.  Let me try again.  If the 
potion was what was causing DD to be so very weak at that time, but a 
dose of whatever Snape could've done for him would've restored DD to 
*full* health, then I'd have a hard time believing it was for the 
best for DD to allow himself to die.  If, otoh, and as I do believe, 
DD was fading throughout the school year -- from whatever caused the 
blackened hand, especially, and perhaps from the potion and/or lake 
water as well -- and if he knew his end was drawing nearer and that a 
Snape Antidote would only buy him a *little* more time, then I could 
much more readily accept that he'd make the decision that it was 
better to die right then for the good of the cause.  (Why risk 
revealing too much if it's only buying DD a small additional bit of 
time?)  

If DD *would* have been able to have been restored to pretty much 
normal health by Snape, then I guess I find it hard to believe that 
DD wouldn't have found *some* way to have 'played' that scene on the 
Tower to allow that to happen.  Or do folks think that would just 
have been totally impossible to have pulled off under the 
circumstances, with all those around, and all the DEs knowing Draco's 
assignment?

Siriusly Snapey Susan,
who just finished rereading HBP but who's still feeling like she's 
missing things....