Unbreakable Vows

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 165608







Snow:
> <snip>
> In a likewise manner, if Snape understands the terms agreed to 
during 
> the Vow to be something other than what was actually meant (a 
> loophole) then he could accept the conditions without detriment. 
> 
> The third stipulation to the Vow allows for such a loophole:
> 
> "And, should it prove necessary ... if it seems Draco will 
fail ..." 
> [...] 
> 
> "will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco 
to 
> perform?"
 

Neri:

I personally don't like this looking for loopholes. The Vow scene is a
very dramatic one, and would be cheapened by this or that loophole.
Moreover, if it was the only loophole required to save Snape from the
blame of killing Dumbledore, it might have been worth it. But for that
you also need several additional loopholes on the tower, and the
combined effect would IMO amount to poor writing on JKR's side.
Especially since she give us very little information on the UV magic. 

Snow:

I'm not actually looking for loopholes; they just seem to appear to 
me like huge question marks. 

I can not get my head around the fact that Draco seems to be so very 
confident that he can kill Dumbledore at the beginning, when (as you 
say yourself further down) Voldemort has never succeeded in doing so. 

What would make Draco feel so confident in the deed assigned to him 
if in fact it was to kill Dumbledore at his own hand? 

As others have noticed, as well as me, Draco seemed to be quite pre-
occupied with the cabinets if his main objective was to kill 
Dumbledore "himself" from the get go. Granted, attempts were made on 
Dumbledore's life but they were quite feeble attempts, like his heart 
really wasn't in it, if Dumbledore was `his' main objective. 

Then we have Draco's meltdown where he was allowing himself to be 
consoled by a muggleborn ghost, what changed, where's mister-cocky-
attitude now? 

After this we have Draco's whoops in the Room of Requirement as if he 
just felt he had won the big prize and yet he is no closer to killing 
Dumbledore (himself) than he was before.

Was Draco just under some delusional concept all along that he would 
never have to kill Dumbledore at all, that the Deatheaters would be 
there to help fulfill his assignment? That wouldn't be cocky that 
would be stupid. 

As far as the Vow itself, concerning loopholes, JKR has already 
established that fact when the stipulations to the Vow were so vague 
in content compounded by out of character responses from a youngster 
who has presumably been assigned the task of killing the greatest 
wizard of his time. This is the biggest question mark of all. It just 
doesn't fit well for me.

Here's a question for you though, if any part of the Vow has been 
fulfilled would that fulfill the entire Vow? 

The second stipulation to the Vow has already been procured when 
Snape saved Draco from Harry's sectemsempra spell. 

We don't really know because the writer also left this information 
vague. It may all tie in at the end, somehow she always seems to do 
it, but for now I have to follow my suspicions because of all the 
blank information. 

Snow:
> If the Dark Lord has indeed ordered Draco to kill Dumbledore at his 
> own hand from the beginning, why would Narcissa ask "should it 
prove 
> necessary" and "if it seems Draco would fail"? 
> 

Neri:

Because Snape has just made it very clear to her that he will not take
the task *instead* of Draco. The Dark Lord gave the task to Draco and
Snape will not go against the Dark Lord's orders. So the whole third
clause is only made possible by Snape's detailed estimation that the
Dark Lord does not believe Draco will manage the task and actually
means for Snape to do it in the end, but he's determined that Draco
must try first. Therefore Narcissa stresses that Snape is required to
step in only "should it prove necessary... if it seems Draco would
fail". Draco must have the first shot, or it's going directly against
the Dark Lord's orders and Snape would refuse it. BTW, this wording
also implies that Snape is quite free to refuse the third clause even
after he had already accepted the previous two. Otherwise Narcissa
would have taken advantage of that to make him promise doing the deed
without Draco attempting it first.

Snow:

That makes perfect sense when you look at the picture only from the 
cut scene of the Vow.
 
Narcissa's phraseology still leaves a doubt in my mind because I 
don't give her that much credit to be brilliant enough to entrap 
Snape the way you propose. 

> Snow:
> We are led to believe that Dumbledore is Draco's main objective and 
> that his death must be at Draco's hand but there is no substantial 
> evidence that any of the parties were aware that Draco was to be 
the 
> killer at the point of the Vow. 
> 
> If, as I suspect, Draco was under the assumption that he had backup 
> on his mission, then his assignment changed after the Vow had been 
> taken and Snape would not be held liable ... or would he become 
> liable because of Narcissa's vague wording? 

Neri:

So what was the task to be in the beginning? Narcissa says that Draco
doesn't stand a chance because even the Dark Lord has never succeeded.
But if the task was infiltrating Hogwarts, Voldemort has already done
that (in SS/PS). If the mission is smuggling DEs into Hogwarts,
Voldemort has done that too (Crouch Jr. in GoF, and of course Snape
himself). And Narcissa adds that not only the Dark Lord, but *nobody*
has ever succeeded before. This limits options considerably.


Snow:

Very good reply! Of course now I have to nitpick a few points; 
Voldemort has never infiltrated Hogwarts as himself (a parasite 
wouldn't really count would it); Crouch Jr. would not be counted as a 
group of DE's. 

This was not exactly what I had in mind when I made the statement 
that I did. I agree that Dumbledore was always the target, I just 
don't think Draco or his mother were aware that he was the only one 
destined to do the deed of the actual killing. 

If the assignment were to just kill Dumbledore by any means with all 
necessary help at your disposal (like Draco's remark about Fenrir to 
Borgins or was it Burk?), then I could see Draco acting cocky as he 
did at the beginning, and I could see Narcissa being as worried as 
she was. 

This doesn't make that much appearing difference to the storyline but 
it does explain character response. I simply don't agree that Draco 
nor anyone else (except Voldemort), was aware at the time of the Vow, 
that Draco had to be the lone killer. 

It doesn't appear to make much of a difference on the surface until 
you take into consideration Snape's hesitation in making the Vow and 
his spat with Dumbledore much later. 

Snape felt that he was protecting a child from making a way to 
Dumbledore's demise (which is bad enough) only to find out that he 
was protecting the child that would ultimatly be his demise and if 
Draco couldn't do it then Snape was held accountable. 

This fits for me. 

Snow