ChapDisc: HBP30, The White Tomb - What if...???

[quick_silver71]

No: HPFGUIDX 165845

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
<snip>
> bboyminn:
> 
> There is no need for a set-up, which I think is actually
> there, nor for hestiation because Draco and Dumbledore
> did all the hestiating. By that I mean, as Dumbledore
> and Draco talk, Dumbledore grows weaker and weaker,
> gradually sliding down the wall and, to some extent,
> collapsing on the floor. So Dumbledore is pretty far
> gone, actually, completely helpless by the time Snape
> arrives. 
<snip>
> Now, I admit my theory is slightly weak give the
> information we have, but on the other hand, JKR
> wouldn't want to give too much away. It is clear that
> Dumbledore is fading fast. I speculate Snape's 
> 'revulsion and hatred' are not against Dumbledore,
> but for the position Snape has been forced into. In 
> doing this Snape is dooming himself in the public
> mind forever. That is also why he chastises Harry for
> calling him a coward, when just moments before he
> has done the bravest and most self-destrutive thing
> he has ever done in his life. 

Quick_Silver:
The thing is that basically makes the entire Tower scene a quirk that 
happened though sheer luck (Felix perhaps?) rather then planning or 
at least foresight (i.e. something like the conversation in the 
forest). If Snape had shown up a minute earlier then how it happened 
in the scene then what? He'd just kill time till Dumbledore died? 

<snip>
> bboyminn:
> 
> But Draco presents the same problem as Snape. While 
> Harry may have realized that Draco couldn't kill 
> Dumbledore, Draco, none the less, caused Dumbledore's 
> death. He is guilty of conspiracy to commit murder or 
> accessory to murder. In the eyes of the law, Draco is 
> just a guilty as Snape. So how can Harry reconcile with
> Draco? What could possibly happen to bring them together
> on the same side?
> 
> If Draco contacts Harry, why would Harry even remotely
> trust him. How could he possibly dare met with Draco
> when Draco has caused Dumbledore's death and caused the
> injuries to Harry friends, and is now working with the
> Death Eaters? 
> 
> I don't see how Draco could bring Snape into Harry's
> camp, but I do see how Snape could bring Draco in. If
> it turns out that Dumbledore was already dead when
> Snape 'killed' him.
> 
> I am convinced that in the end, Snape, and probably
> Draco, will turn out to work for the good side. The
> questions is what circumstance could occur to allow
> that to happen. As things stand, Harry is dead set 
> against both Snape and Draco. He wouldn't trust 
> either one any father than he could throw Grawp. So,
> something has to happen, new information must become
> available to make Harry accept their help. But what?
> What could that 'thing' be? The only thing I can come
> up with the fills the bill is Dumbledore was already
> dead.

Quick_Silver:
That's not how I remember the Harry Draco relationship at the end of 
HBP at all (if I'm wrong please correct me). Harry states that he 
feels a slight amount of pity for Draco and realizes that Draco is 
being coerced by threats against his family. He thinks neither of 
those things about Snape...indeed by the end of HBP Snape vs. Harry 
is basically then same in sheer hate as Harry vs. Voldemort. Draco 
isn't in the same league. 

Harry knows that on some level Draco is the enemy of his enemy and I 
think that Harry can work with that (on some level) and from the 
Tower scene he knows that Draco is being threatened. Harry's never 
made that connection with Snape, who Harry seems to see as an enemy 
in his own right.  

What's more the final HBP scene with Snape ends in the utter 
humiliation of Harry by Snape. The last time Harry and Draco fought 
Draco ended up dying on the floor which means that Harry could be 
more secure in dealing with Draco knowing that their in roughly the 
same talent league. 

To me it's a matter of degrees...Harry has more incentive to work 
with Draco (he witnessed the talk between Draco and Dumbledore), less 
hatred and emotion to overcome in regards to Draco, and there's no 
hidden issues lurking between Harry and Draco whereas there may well 
be with Snape. Once he understands Draco then I think that he may be 
ready to apply those lessons to Snape.

Quick_Silver