ChapDisc: HBP30, The White Tomb - What if...???

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 165899

---  "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> bboyminn wrote:
> <snip>
> > In general, I somewhat dispute people's claims of 
> > what is a normal Killing Curse. To my knowledge, we
> > have never seen a Killing Curse actually occur. ...
> 
> Carol:
> Actually, yes, we have--Harry sees Fake!Moody kill
> the spider:
> 
> "There was a flash of blinding green light and a 
> rushing sound, as though a vast, invisible something 
> was soaring through the air--instantaneously, the 
> spider rolled over onto its back, unmarked,
> but unmistakably dead (GoF Am. ed. 316).
> 
> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> How many descriptions do we need to see that AK 
> victims do not go sailing into the air, that they die
> instantly (the freezing charm should have worn off 
> instantly), that there's a "blinding flash" ..., 
> nothing like the "jet" of green light that comes from
> Snape's wand? 
> 
> ...

bboyminn:

Here is the key aspect of my point, that you seem to
be missing. Curses act very differently depending on
the emotion behind them. I gave the example of
comparing Harry's practice Stunning Spell against Ron,
and the same Stunning Spell used against Moody by 
Dumbledore. Another example is the Expelliarmus
Disarming Spell. /Normally/ is simply deprives the
cursed person of their wand or other weapon. Yet,
we see a substantial difference between that, and 
what happens in the Dueling Club between Lockhart and
Snape. Snape knocks Lockhart on his ass. Yet in 
practice in the DA Club, people's wands simply fly
across the room. 

Also, key to my theory, is that /missed/ spells 
frequently have substantial physical impact.

So, my point is that there is no 'normal' for a spell.
We have many examples of the emotion behind the spell
afftecting how the spell occurs. Powerful emotions
make for powerful secondary effects, even though the
primary effect remains the same. The Stunning Curse
stuns, but it can simply stun or it can stun with a 
full range of physical impact. The Disarming Spell
disarms, but it can do so with a wide range of
physical impact depending on the emotions behind it.

In the one case where we literally see a Killing 
Curse make contact and have it's desired effect, it
is in Moody's classroom and the secondary emotional
impact isn't there because the emotions aren't there.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm just saying that
this absolute determination to see the Killing 
Curse in only one light is ignoring a lot of available
information.

Also, I am trying to find a reasonable and workable 
explanation for what has happened. I do agree that
something isn't quite right about the whole Green 
Light Spell on the top of the tower. It is possible
that Snape used some alternate spell, but why? JKR
has said about as unequivocally as is possible that
Dumbledore is dead and he is not coming back. So,
what purpose does an alternate spell provide? 

I know my 'Dumbledore was already Dead' theory has its
weaknesses, but it as an explanation, weak as it may
be, that fits within the confines of known information.

As to 'Flash' vs 'Jet', you have a point, but I'm not
sure to what extent I buy it. The only 'jet' of light
the produce very very little peripheral light is a 
lazer. Most other intense 'jets' or more accurately 
'beams' of light are going to have some peripheral 
radiation. A brilliantly intense beam of light is also
going to produce a substantial peripheral 'flash' of 
light. 

Again, I can't say your wrong. In fact, I will flat out
say that all I am doing is speculating. Until JKR tells
us for sure, that is all we can do. But I also think 
there are bits of evidence that you are discounting in
your analysis.

Again, say that Snape used an alternative Spell; to what
end? I don't know how JKR could make it any plainer that
Dumbledore is dead and not coming back. So /if/ 
Dumbledore is dead, what is the purpose of this alternate
spell? I think there is a mystery there to be found, I
just don't think it is that Dumbledore faked his death,
and if it is /not/ that, then what is another plausable
explanation?

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn