[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore's judgment (WAS Hermione and 'Evil is a strong word')

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 165997

> Alla:
>
> But then we are back to DD poor judgment, I think. I mean, if you
> are saying that DD's judgment is correct when he concentrates on the
> person, makes the person his project, then how do we know when this
> happens?
>
> Are you saying that in order for DD to be correct about the person
> he must make the person his project, depend on him?
>
> Well, isn't Sirius being the part of the selected group of few is
> sort of a time to make him his project, really?
>
> I mean if you ask me, being DD's student should have been enough,
> but let's say it was not, DD has many students, but there had been
> only several fighters in OOP. So why did DD **not** make Sirius his
> project back then? I mean did he not depend on the order, on each
> and every one of them to implement his plans?
>
> I mean, it seems to me then that the distinction you are making is
> rather arbitrary, if that is the best word.

Magpie:
It is a good word--and I think it is fairly arbitrary for just the reason 
you say later, which is that DD is being the victim of plot. DD the good 
judge of character couldn't be there for Sirius because Sirius was supposed 
to be in jail--it's almost as if Sirius didn't exist until he got out.

But I still think it applies to Snape, because with Snape the text is 
highlighting DD the good guy who gave Snape a second chance when no one else 
would. So even though I agree that DD the excellent judge of character ought 
to have figured out Peter was the traitor and certainly know that Sirius, 
whom James trusted so much, wasn't, I think that's more something necessary 
for the plot than something we can apply to the Snape story.

In fact it seems like the mistake with Sirius is written to be not 
Dumbledore's fault in any way. We're never really encouraged to ask why 
Dumbledore didn't defend him or look more into it. In that storyline it's 
like it's all about the evidence and the way things seemed to be. It's only 
after Sirius gets out of prison that Dumbledore's giving any explanations 
for him.


>> Magpie:
>> That's the part where I think Dumbledore is supposed to have
> gotten him. He
>> understood why Sirius was going crazy in the house. He still was
> wrong to do
>> keep him there, but it wasn't a case of Dumbledore not
> understanding why it
>> was hard for him. Same thing with Snape if Snape is DDM, regarding
> the
>> Occlumency. He knew exactly why Snape had trouble and why things
> failed, so
>> it wasn't a case of misjuding him, more like overestimating him. I
> think he
>> felt he was taking a similar risk with Sirius--knowing why it
> would be hard
>> for him, but letting him try to deal with it.
>
>
> Alla:
>
> Oh, you know I think I agree with you here, but then again how do we
> know that it was always the case with Snape, you know?
>
> I mean how do we know that DD **always** understood him and not just
> sometimes as he did with Sirius?

Magpie:
We don't. I'm saying *if* Snape was DDM as was claimed in OotP itself--and 
that's a big "if"--then Dumbledore was making the same kind of mistake with 
both Sirius and Snape.

Alla:>
> What if when Snape came to DD with his tale of remorse, deepest one,
> DD was not concentrating on Snape enough to make him his project?

Magpie:
I'd find that hard to believe, just because of the circumstances. He's 
trusting Snape himself, so he would be making him a project--that's the way 
he's been mostly presented to the Order. They all trust him because 
Dumbledore's got this big secret understanding of him.

-m