Dumbledore as a judge of character (Was:Why DD did not ask Snape to kill him

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 166042

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...>
wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Carol responds:
>
> I think we agree that Harry's life is essential to the defeat of
> Voldemort. *If* Snape saw the two brooms and correctly deduced that
> Harry was on the tower in his Invisibility Cloak, and *if* he knew
> from an exchanged glance with Dumbledore that killing Dumbledore
> himself (rather than letting the DEs do it) was the *only* way to
get
> Harry (and Draco) safely off the tower (and the DEs out of
Hogwarts),
> how could Snape's action not be the right thing to do?

Dana:
*If* Snape was thinking of Draco and DD when he ran from his office
to the tower, if he indeed did not know Harry was there, then he
should have allowed members of the Order to follow him.
But he did not, he made sure that no one could offer any assistance
and thus making a decision based on his previous actions, taking out
Flitwich and asking Hermione and Luna to take care of him and not
allowing anyone to follow him, he specifically *choose* to endanger
Draco, Harry and DD. This does not make his decision to take out DD,
to rescue them, more noble because he had options *before* he reached
the tower.

Carol:
> I'm not talking about Snape's value as a spy or any other reasons
why
> DD might want Snape to live, nor am I talking about any "plan" to
have
> snape kill or seem to kill Dumbledore;
<snip>


Dana now:
*If* there was no plan and DD never asked Snape to kill him, then
Snape did the most horrible thing a person can do to another human
being; - take his life. This is never noble and it isn't even noble
in a combat situation in the Potterverse, as we have never heard of
one person, in the entire series, that died at the hand of an Order
member (traitors excluded). If DD did not ask Snape, than it was not
Snape's decision to make. Besides I believe that DD would rather have
died at the hand of another than at the hand of someone he trusted
because that person's soul would be more important to DD, then his
own life.
Also DD did everything to prevent fueling Harry's hate for Snape and
suddenly it would not be important enough because he would rather be
killed by Snape then people he considered unredeemable.

Snape had options but again he *chose* not to take them before he
entered the scene.

Carol:
> Wouldn't *saving Harry's life* justify what would otherwise be
unjustifiable?
<snip>

Dana:
No, because Harry's presence was unknown to the DEs and therefore his
life was not in immediate danger because only if DD died, was Harry
free to move, not before. He could have re-armed DD, who I am sure
even in a weakened state could take them on with ease, especially
with Snape's help (were it not for that pesky UV). Draco was not
in immediate danger because the Order did not know his task and that
it was he who let the DE in and the DEs were there to assist Draco
so they were not going to do anything to him either. The Order was
not losing the battle so what makes you assume that getting the DEs
out as quickly as possible was the only way to keep everyone safe?
Someone could have notified the MoM and help would have been arriving
soon. He had many options but he specifically chose this one, and
therefore it would never be justifiable and neither would it be if DD
asked Snape to kill him. And like I said in a previous post if DD was
already dying than Snape could have stalled killing him by talking to
Draco and let DD die on his own.

DD would never ever make Harry witness his murder if he could have
prevented it. And I am very sure that DD did not expect to die from
the potion because he would never have asked Harry to accompany him
to the cave, I am very sure that he thought he could be saved with
Snape's help and therefore it indicates to me, he had not expected
the DE invasion that night. If he had died from it then it would have
been something Harry could have overcome because it was DD's own
choice to ask Harry to assist him and the situation at hand prevented
DD to get the proper medical care.

It would have been considered an unfortunate accident but Harry could
not overcome a murder committed by someone DD trusted. What if Harry
lost faith in DD because of it? Harry trusting DD is very important
for what Harry has to do next, if Harry cannot trust the
information he is given by DD then he could very well fail in his
mission. Harry losing faith in DD would undermine everything he has
been working for and by the way Harry's raging hate could undermine
the task at hand as well because it poisons the heart. It was not DD
who betrayed that trust but Snape. This is why DD was shocked Harry
found out it was Snape who relayed part of the prophesy to LV.

Carol:
> Carol, asking Sherry to please answer only the hypothetical point,
the
> "what if", and not argue that this wasn't Snape's only option, which
> is not the point of the post

Dana now:
I am not Sherry but it is unfair to ask someone to answer a
hypothetical point if you cannot argue the man's options, because
existence of other options is the only thing that makes the
hypothetical point invalid. If you can only argue the hypothesis with
points that validate it, it is an erroneous hypothesis. You can not
validate something by looking at it from only one direction.

Carol:
> P.S. I'm half-afraid that my P.S. will detract from my post, which I
> really want an answer to, but what kind of "good Snape scenario"
> *would* you accept?

Well a really "good Snape scenario" does not exist because murder is
considered an act of evil. You can only look at the true intentions
behind his actions. Was he always ESE or did he let himself get into
something that proved beyond his control. Makes me think of a quote
Movie!Sirius made (not canon of course); "Brilliant, Snape - once
again you've put your keen and penetrating mind to the task and as
usual come to the wrong conclusion".

Dana