Comparing Secret Keeper plan and UV plan (Re: Why DD did not ask Snape)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 166278

Dana wrote:
<snip>
> 
> I truly want to see any indication that Snape is a DDM and I am open
to suggestions (yes, really) as long as they do not involve DD made
him do it. <snip>

Carol responds:
I take it you're disregarding Snape's actions in saving Katie Bell's
and Dumbledore's lives in HBP. (I'm not including Draco's because that
could be explained by the UV.) And I've already presented canon
suggesting that Snape took the UV to protect Draco, so I won't go back
there.

The problem with looking for evidence in HBP is that the whole book
leads up to the events on the tower and is written in such a way that
snape remains ambiguous. Either he's presented from the outside, as in
"Spinner's End," or he's presented from Harry's point of view. The
evidence we need, the complete argument in the forest, for example, is
withheld from us. We can reasonably conclude, however, that when Snape
stunned Flitwick, he knew that the moment of decision had come at last
and he didn't want any interference with what he knew he might have to
do, DDM! or not. And, whether it's part of Snape's intention or not,
stunning Flitwick also keeps the tiny Charms professor, who can be
sent sailing across a room even by a Summoning or Banishing Charm,
from being harmed by the Death Eaters. I could provide similar DDM!
explanations for the other items in your list, but it's pointless to
do so. You don't see them that way, and until the matter of Snape's
loyalties is finally resolved in DH, we will never agree. (I, for
example, can't imagine why an ESE! or OFH!Snape would rescue Harry
from as Crucio, and I don't consider "he's for the Dark Lord" a
sufficient explanation. It's simply a reason that the DEs would
accept, as opposed to his real reason. Surely, Voldemort wouldn't mind
at all that Harry was suffering from a Crucio, as long as the DEs
didn't kill him.)

However, some actions, for me, cannot be explained from anything
except a DDM! perspective. I'll list only three, the ones that, for
me, are most compelling.

The first occurs in CoS, after McGonagall tells the staff the a
student has been taken into the Chamber of Secrets. "Professor
Flitwick let out a squeal. Professor Sprout clapped her hand to her
mouth. Snape gripped the back of a chair very hard and said, 'How can
you be sure?'" (Cos Am. ed. 293). Like the others, he is expressing
concern. Unlike them, he is fully in control and taking a practical
approach. Why he would react that way if he were evil, I cannot imagine.

The second occurs in GoF, after he has helped Dumbledore deal with
Barty Crouch Jr. and his image has shown up in the Foe Glass along
with theirs. Dumbledore is trying to convince the recalcitrant Fudge
that Voldemort is back, but Fudge isn't listening. Snape strides
forward and reveals his Dark Mark to Fudge, saying, "There. The Dark
Mark. It is not as clear as it was an hour or so ago, when it burned
black, but you can still see it. . . . This Mark has been growing
clearer all year. Karkaroff's too. why do you think Karkaroff fled
tonight? We both felt the Mark burn. We both knew he had returned. . .
." (GoF Am. ed. 709-10). Considering that, as far as Snape knows, no
one in the room except Dumbledore even knows that he was a Death
Eater, this is an act of remarkable courage. Moreover, the Mark in
itself, along with the flight of known ex-DE Karkaroff, is convincing,
 tangible evidence that Voldemort is back. Fudge *ought* to believe
it, and if he weren't so determined to deny all evidence that he later
resorts to discrediting Dumbledore and Harry, he would have believed
it. Snape did not *have* to step forward. He did not *have* to expose
himself as a former DE in front of Fudge, McGonagall, Mrs. Weasley, he
son Bill, HRH, and Madam Pomfrey. (Perhaps he wouldn't have done so if
he'd known who the dog was.) We *know* that Sirius Black didn't know
he was a former DE. I don't think the others did, either, because his
name was not among those listed in the Daily Prophet as innocent by
reason of Imperius. The charges against him were simply dropped so he
could continue spying on Voldemort. Rita Skeeter knew nothing about
them. But Snape is revealing his past to Fudge and the others to
convince Fudge that Voldemort is back. Why on earth would a loyal DE
do that? And then, of course, he goes back to Voldemort on DD's
orders, as they have clearly planned ("If you are ready . . . if you
are prepared," 713). Karkaroff, the coward, fled. Snape remained at
Hogwarts, as he had said he would (426). You may be able to find an
ESE! or OFH! reading for Snape's behavior in these scens, especially
the revelation of his Dark Mark, but for me they are compelling
evidence of Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore and opposition to Voldemort.

The last bit of evidence relates to the Occlumency lessons, which
Snape has told Harry to keep secret from everyone, but especially
Dolores Umbridge (OoP Am. ed. 519). After explaining what Occlumency
and Legilimency are and why DD wants Harry to take the lessons
(except, of course, for specific mention of the Prophecy), Snape
authorizes Harry to use any spell he can think of to defend himself,
as well as telling him that the best method is a mental defence like
the one Harry has already used against the Imperius Curse (530-34). He
even, on two occasions, actually praises Harry, Snape-style ("For a
first attempt, that was not as poor as it might have been," 535, and
"There is no doubt that it [the Protego] was effective" (592). He
still does not *like* Harry, but he retains his self-control when
Harry breaks into his memories ("Well, Potter, that was certainly an
improvement," followed by the remark on the Shield Charm and "Let's
try again shall we?" (592). 

When Snape does get angry, actually shouting as opposed to glaring at
Harry or turning pale (as when Harry broke into his own memories),
it's usually because Harry is seeing something that Dumbledore (and
DDM!Snape) wouldn't want him to see, dreams or memories that belong to
Voldemort and which wouldn't be in his head if he were practicing
Occlumency and closing his mind at night. The first time he shouts
(not CAPSLOCK, however) it's because Harry allowed him to see the
memory of Cedric's death. "Get up!" Snape says sharply. "You are not
trying, you are making no effort, you are allowing me access to
memories you fear, you are handing me weapons!" (536). The reason for
DDM!Snape's anger is obvious--if Harry allows Voldemort access to such
memories, Harry will "find  [himself] easy prey for the Dark Lord!"
536). Now, shouting may not be the best teaching method, but it's hard
to explain Snape's anger and frustration at this point if he actually
*wants* the Dark Lord to see such memories. Soon afterwards, Harry
sees a glimpse of his corridor dream, and Snape, who also sees this
memory, lifts the spell before Harry can even fight back (537). He
remains calm at first, asking Harry "What happened then, Potter?"
Harry thinks about his dream and asks, "what's in the Department of
Mysteries?" Snape asks quietly, "what did you say?" and Harry sees
that he's "unnerved" (537). Harry repeats his question and Snape says
slowly, "And why would you ask such a thing?" Harry tells him about
the corridor dream: "I've been dreaming about it for months--I've just
recogniaed it--it leads to the Department of Mysteries. . . . and i
think Voldemort wants something from--" Snape conceals his concern by
saying that he doesn't want Harry to say the Dark Lord's name, but
Harry sees that he looks "agitated" and that when he speaks again,
he's trying to look "cool and unconcerned" (537). Snape then tell
Harry that there are many things in the Department of Mysteries, none
of which concerns him, followed by another warning to keep his mind
blank and calm before he goes to bed (538). It could not be plainer
that Snape is concerned by the dream and doesn't want Harry to
continue having it. If he were Voldemort's man, this news would make
him jubilant.

We see something similar when Harry has the memory of Rookwood
kneeling before Voldemort, only Snape doesn't shout; he only uses
Legilimency, his eyes boring into Harry's, and asks, "What are that
man and that room doing in your head, Potter?" He asks Harry to remind
him why they're there and asks whether he's had any other dreams about
the Dark Lord, tells him that the dreams don't make him special and
that it's not Harry's job to find out what Voldemort is telling the
DEs (it's Snape's [very dangerous] job, and Snape looks satisfied when
Harry finally figures that out, 591). Later in the same session, after
the Protego incident, Harry feels himself hurtling down the corridor
and actually sees the door open. Snape, who has seen the same
thing--or has he seen *Voldemort* hurtling donw the corridor?--shouts,
"POTTER! Explain yourself!" Snape looks "furious," "even angrier than
he had done two minutes before, when Harry had seen into his own
memories" (593). Unfortunately, before Snape can do more than berate
Harry for being "lazy and sloppy," the lesson is interrupted by
Trelawney's scream.

I can see no explanation for Snape's anger and concern over the
dream-related memories except the concern he shares with Dumbledore,
not wanting Harry to know about the Prophecy in the DoM. If he were
Voldemort's man, he would want Harry to keep having those dreams. He
might even, like Barty Crouch Jr. before him, be subtly helping Harry
to figure out a way to go there.

I didn't mean to write such a long post, but it seems to me that the
Occlumency lessons (which, BTW, violate Umbridge's decree that
teachers teach only the subjects they're paid to teach, and which
Snape is keeping secret from her) demonstrate Snape's loyalty to
Dumbledore. They certainly demonstrate his opposition to Umbridge, as
does his later behavior with the fake Veritaserum and his refusal to
cooperate with her when she requests more. And opposition to Umbridge
equates, in OoP, to loyalty to Dumbledore.

As for loyalty to Voldemort, which is antithetical to loyalty to
Dumbledore, just giving the lessons and telling Harry about
Voldemort's abilities as a Legilimens is evidence of Snape's loyalty
to DD. And his concern about the Voldemort-related dreams, which he
clearly does not want Harry to have, strongly suggests to me that he
doesn't want Harry to know about the Prophecy and doesn't want him
anywhere near the DoM. IOW, his desires are exactly in line with those
of Dumbledore and the Order members, all of whom want Harry to learn
Occlumency. That Harry invades the Pensieve, violating Snape's trust
and privacy and causing him to end the lessons, is unfortunate, but
Snape's subsequent actions, especially sending the Order to the DoM
when he realizes that Harry believes the vision and has somehow found
a way to get there despite his confiscated broom, indicate, to me, at
least, that his loyalty to Dumbledore has not changed.

Carol, for whom the evidence of Snape's loyalties in these examples is
quite clear despite the intense mutual dislike between him and Harry