LV's bigger plan (was:Fawkes possible absence)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 166404

> Magpie:
<SNIP>
>> As to what parts are a standalone and what are not, I look at the 
> things that were resolved and the things that were not. HBP is full 
> of things that are not resolved, which is what makes it the first 
> part of a two-part story. The things that were solved were solved. 

Alla:

Well,sure, except reasonable minds can differ on what was solved and 
what was not. Things that seemed to be resolved to you may not be to 
somebody else IMO.

 
> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> So whatever we find out about Snape is something we still have to 
> find out--and it will encompass everything, not just HBP, though of 
> course the murder of Dumbledore is part of it. But clearly that 
> aspect is being set up as a question, because all the characters 
are 
> asking it at the end of the book. 

Alla:

Sure, but here is a good example. Snape role may be set up as a 
question, but I absolutely for example do not see Snape murdering 
Dumbledore being set up as a question. It is **very** clear to me 
that Snape killed him, although I can see the reasons are ambiguous.

But for some people ( or many) the fact that Snape killed Dumbledore 
is also a questions mark, so reasonable minds do differ on that one 
as well IMO.

Magpie:
> The same is not true for the Draco Plot. <SNIP> And ultimately what 
happens? A long confessional scene where it's 
> revealed: He's supposed to kill Dumbledore. He sent the necklace 
and 
> the mead. He confirms everyone thought he would die. Dumbledore 
> confirms Voldemort would kill him in his place. The DEs show up to 
> force him to kill Dumbledore and not back out. Snape arrives and 
> kills DD in his place, just as he promised. Draco learns he's not a 
> killer, and sees the glimmer of new possibilities.

Alla:

Well, yes, but not quite IMO. That **is** what happened, I just do 
not necessarily agree that we know for sure why it is happened that 
way.

 
Magpie:
<SNIP>
> There are plenty of things in HBP that are obviously unresolved 
> without unresolving stuff that was already resolved. Draco's plan 
> has been detonated and confessed--what's to drag out into another 
> book? What more is there to be said about it? What good is gained 
> from finding out Draco was wrong about it? That Voldemort was 
really 
> trying to get Trelawney and Dumbledore sent her away? Would we 
> really care? 

Alla:

Yes, it is just the unresolved part is not the same for everybody and 
if we say learn that Voldemort was the mastermind behind UV it can be 
very interesting IMO. Not that I really invested in it by the way. To 
me it will not change the desire to see Snape suffer one bit :)


 
> Alla:> 
> > What if as Jen speculates we will learn that Voldemort was 
> > behind the UV after all?Is there anything in HBP that prevents 
JKR 
> from doing it?
> 
> Magpie:
> The UV is one of the questions left open in HBP, so no answer is 
off-
> limits--as long as, imo, it doesn't rewrite the stuff in HBP that 
> was resolved. 

Alla:

So, if Voldemort really sent Narcissa to plead with Snape, do you 
think it rewrites stuff in HBP? Because I think that even if it does, 
it is a fair game.


Magpie:
This book is the first part of a two part story, and 
> so, imo, along with certain things being unresolved, other things 
> are I suspect a set up to what happens later. Anything that seems 
to 
> put any character back a couple of steps (in either direction) I 
> don't think will happen. That's a problem with things like 
Voldemort 
> secretly sending Peter in to fix things for Draco. Emotionally it's 
> important that Draco was responsible for that night, imo.

Alla:

Agreed that it is important for Draco to be responsible, yes.

Magpie:
> As I said we could certainly learn that other things happened that 
> night too, things that will be part of DH. As long as they fit 
> around the stuff that was resolved in HBP they're fine. Just as 
> learning about Montague in HBP didn't change things resolved in 
> OotP. Finding out Umbridge was really a plant by Dumbledore to 
teach 
> the kids something, otoh, would be anti-climactic. Re-reading the 
> book would be less interesting once you knew the truth, not more. 
> Anything else we learn about Voldemort's plans in HBP, if anything, 
> is fine unless it sucks the life out of the emotional story we got.

Alla:

But do you know for sure which story JKR is really writing? To you 
the emotional story is Draco discovering that he is not a killer, 
which is quite likely to be true, me thinks.

To me it is no less emotional and very entertaining would be 
Voldemort playing Snape for complete and absolute fool and setting 
him up on that journey of protecting Draco, taking UV, killing DD, 
etc.

It may well suck out a life of Draco's story, but I cannot exclude a 
possibility that Draco story was a diversion, nothing else, to deal 
with Snape for example.

Like what Cassie wrote in her predictions about Draco. 

 
> Magpie:
> I think there are different kinds of things to be reversed, and 
some 
> of them cross the line from "surprise" to "destroying what came 
> before." 

Alla:

Yes, except but for HBP being part 1 of one volume pretty much. 
During PoA Scabbers was reversed, during last part of GoF the role of 
fake Moody in the first part was put in new light, so if in the last 
part of the book some events of the first one would be reversed, I 
think it is possible.

magpie:
<SNIP>
Returning to a plot fully 
> contained in HBP like Draco's seems like just picking at a corpse. 
> The signs at the end of the book point forward, not back, with 
Harry 
> not thinking about what Voldemort's *real* plan was, but noticing a 
> change in the way he thinks about Malfoy now that he knows what 
> happened. The question now is what will Malfoy do next? And Snape 
> too? Voldemort's plans are more effective when they're just ways to 
> get the characters reacting in juicy ways.

Alla:

Sure, if return is to Draco alone, but if  the plan is illuminated in 
new light in context of the other events, I do not see why not.

Magpie: 
> Also it still seems like many of the "problems" with this plan of 
> Voldemort's are solved if you stop looking for solutions other than 
> the ones presented in canon. 

Alla:

I am not,actually, as I mentioned in my previous post if we were to 
take a position that HBP is a single volume as previous parts, I 
would agree with pretty much everything you said.

But since we know that it is not, I am disagreeing strongly with the 
idea that we **know** which parts can be reversed in DH, and which 
ones are not.

JMO,

Alla