[HPforGrownups] Re: LV's bigger plan (was:Fawkes possible absence)/ some War and peace

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 166468

 Magpie wrote:
> I think, to go back to the topic of theings being unresolved, that we
> can assume that everything that happened in HBP will have gotten Draco
> to a place that he can't turn back from, whatever it is. So, for
> instance, when people suggest that Voldemort could just make him kill
> someone else that seems wrong because that spring has sprung, if that
> makes sense. Draco couldn't approach another murder as the same
> person--he's actually developed as a character, so would have to react
> differently to that situation the second time.
>
> Carol responds:
> In theory, I agree with you, although I think that Draco was at an
> impasse on the tower, standing "irresolute," and has not made up his
> mind which way he should go. He is, however, definitely at a
> crossroads, and if he's faced with another murder (not likely but
> possible), he will at least know now what murder is.

Magpie:
Yes, that's basically what I mean. Draco is at the crossroads, so he must 
take a road. He can't go back down the road he came, if that makes sense. 
It's not as big of a change as it would be if, for instance, he had rejected 
Voldemort and declared for DD or vice versa, he can't regress into the same 
ignorance and naivite that this story was somewhat about. So I think the 
Draco of DH, whatever he is, would be working with the knowledge he gained 
in HBP.

Carol:
> Theoretically, looking at story structure again (or maybe character
> development, in this case), you don't normally have a character
> learning the same lesson twice. And yet JKR made what I consider to be
> that mistake with Ron. In OoP, he overcomes his debilitating
> self-doubts once the Twins leave and becomes a Quidditch champion
> ("Weasley Is Our King" takes on a whole new meaning unintended by its
> author, the pre-HBP, pre-arrest-of-his-father Draco Malfoy.) And yet
> in HBP, there he is again, lacking confidence until Harry tricks him
> into thinking that he's drunk Felix Felicis.

Magpie:
I had the exact same reaction to Ron's story in HBP. I was surprised he 
seemed to get the same story twice. Though I think there's a difference 
there for Ron in that Ron's story isn't part of the Voldemort story, but the 
school story. I assume it's just supposed to be funny that Ron has this 
problem, and in HBP it was used more towards the R/Hr romance.

There are times that I think Rowling makes weak choices regarding structure. 
People have discussed, for instance, how they wish Harry didn't get full 
points in the second task because it seems to undercut what he does. I felt 
so strongly that Gryffindor should lose the Quidditch cup in OotP I actually 
thought they had until I re-read the book. (I also thought Harry should have 
missed the Snitch in the last game he played.) These aren't things that ruin 
the book, of course, but they are things that stood out to me as the weaker 
choice and I think it did, in my mind, relate to structure and the best way 
to put across the message.

Ceridwen:
Everything we've speculated about concerning LV getting into Hogwarts, could 
have been accomplished if only LV knew about the cabinets.  Therefore, I 
propose that Voldemort didn't know the specifics of Draco's plan, or he 
would have used the Vanishing Cabinets to more advantage.

Magpie:
I have always assumed this was a possibility. Narcissa, Bellatrix and Snape 
in Spinners End are, I assumed, discussing Draco's assassinating Dumbledore. 
Draco is, imo, hiding the Cabinet from Narcissa as well as Snape. I can 
easily imagine Voldemort has no idea how Draco plans to do the murder. The 
DEs know that Draco is supposed to perform the murder, so presumably 
Voldemort has given them leave to go to Hogwarts if Draco can get them in 
there, but he may not know how. Or he may not know at the moment Draco is 
given his task, which is before Draco visits Borgin. It's unclear how much 
Draco can do without Voldemort's knowledge, but he could have access to 
certain DEs for help without having to run by everything he's doing with 
them.

By the time Draco is crying in the bathroom the Cabinet has become his last 
hope, so I don't think "It won't work..." has to mean that Voldemort is 
after him about the Cabinet. Why should he be, since the Cabinet isn't 
necessary for killing anyone, not being deadly in itself (Draco knows this 
too, as evidenced by the necklace and mead)? Draco just knows that if it 
(the Cabinet) won't work he doesn't think he'll have any alternate method. I 
think Voldemort's happy to let him twist all year, since he knows that at 
the end of the year he'll be able to kill him for failing.

The plan of fixing the Cabinets itself has always seemed Draco's baby from 
beginning to end. He thought he could kill DD with backup and to get DEs 
into the castle he had to fix the Cabinets. It was very unlikely he'd be 
able to do it, given that it takes him so long to do it even working all the 
time, and even Borgin isn't sure it can be done without seeing it. The 
school wasn't willing to try to fix it. If Draco hadn't fixed the Cabinet I 
don't think Voldemort would have cared one way or the other, if he knew the 
details. Obviously he doesn't have any great plans for DEs in the castle if 
Draco succeeds. He could know Draco hopes to get back up in to help him 
without knowing how, and assuming whatever Draco is up to won't work. The 
cool thing about the Cabinet Plan is that only Draco could do it because he 
was a kid and a Slytherin who would listen to Montague. It reflects the 
whole underestimating of the kids.

-m