[HPforGrownups] Re: Back to the cursed DADA-job

[Bart Lidofsky]

No: HPFGUIDX 166495

Bart:
>> I have this feeling that the curse on the position is something 
>that JKR came up with after GOF (when Harry is told that Snape has 
>been after the job for only 4 years). It was probably a mistake on 
>JKR's part, because the math makes this quite problematic. 
>
>zgirnius:
>Sorry to nitpick, but when was this, and who said it? A chapter name, 
>at least, would be appreciated, if not the actual quote. This 
>contradicts a statement made in PS/SS by Percy Weasley that everyone 
>knows Snape is after Quirrell's job:

I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe the comment is by Fred or George, and it's when Snape gives a nasty look at Moody, about 1/4 - 1/3 through the book.

zgirnius:
>I don't see how 'everyone' could 'know' Snape is after Quirrell's job 
>if he had only been after it for a year at that point.

Depends on how open he's been about it. Although I'm pretty sure that the rumors were started by Dumbledore.

Bart:
>> So, based on the account, Hogwarts has gone through at least 10, 
>and probably at least 20 DADA teachers, and NOBODY HAS NOTICED THIS 
>TO BE ODD, where when it is mentioned, only the last few teachers are 
>brought up? I am trying to figure out, if Hagrid didn't mean that 
>Quirrel had taught DADA before he went on sabbatical (in PS/SS), then 
>what COULD he have meant (given that he phrased it as he did)? 
>
>zgirnius:
>We have better canon on the timing from HBP, "Lord Voldemort's 
>Request". Tom Riddle finidhed school, worked for a time at Borgin and 
>Burkes, disappeared for about ten years, and then applied for a job.
>
>Tom Riddle was nearing the end of his HOgwarts years in 1945. This 
>places the job interview in the late 50's/early 60's. The curse has 
>been in effect, apparently, since Snape's schooldays. (Likely start, 
>circa 1970).

Bart:
I'm not crazy about the idea of attaching Muggle dates to the HP books, especially since I don't recall any actually being used in the canon (the source, I assume, is from JKR interviews). Because of the time stretching because of the less than 1 book/year schedule, I prefer just using internal references. "Zero points" could be, for example, Harry Potter's birth, the attack on GH, the beginning of book one, and, of course, the current book. Also, note that from CoS, we know that Riddle was using "Lord Voldemort" at age 15. So we don't really know how long TR was openly operating as LV before he became considered to be a theat, and when ANYBODY outside of Tommy's circle (including DD) found out that he was Voldemort. 

however...

zgirnius:
>It is not true that "NOBODY HAS NOTICED THIS TO BE ODD", that the 
>position is jinxed is mentioned to Harry by Hagrid as a rumor in CoS.

CoS:
>> "He was the on' man for the job," said Hagrid, offering them a
>> plate of treacle fudge, while Ron coughed squelchily into his 
>> basin. "An' I mean the on' one. Gettin' very difficult ter find 
>> anyone fer the Dark Arts job. People aren't too keen ter take it 
>> on, see. They're startin' ter think it's jinxed. No one's lasted 
>> long fer a while now."

I'm sorry, but "no one's lasted long fer a while now" and, "nobody's lasted for more than one term in 20+ years" are VERY different things. Yes, Hagrid's statement would be technically true, as would, "The Atlantic Ocean's been known to be wet." 

zgirnius:
>To me this suggests that Rowling has planned the cursed position 
>since at least CoS, and far more likely in my view, since before the 
>publication of PS/SS. I think she had definitely planned to have a 
>different DADA teacher every year, you see, and the curse was 
>probably the 'story-internal' justification for this device.

As I said, I don't think she had "nobody's lasted more than a year in over 2 decades" in mind until OOP at the earliest. Or, alternatively, she never did the math. 

Bart