Back to the cursed DADA-job

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 166497


> Bart:
> I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe the comment is 
by Fred or George, and it's when Snape gives a nasty look at Moody, 
about 1/4 - 1/3 through the book.

zgirnius:
I think I know the scene you mean now. Let me know if this is it. 
(The speakers, however, are Ron and Harry).

> GoF, opening of Chapter 14. "The Unforgivable Curses":
> The next two days passed without great incident, unless you counted 
Neville melting his sixth cauldron in Potions. Professor Snape, who 
seemed to have attained new levels of vindictiveness over the summer, 
gave Neville detention, and Neville returned from it in a state of 
nervous collapse, having been made to disembowel a barrel full of 
horned toads.

> "You know why Snape's in such a foul mood, don't you?" said Ron to 
Harry as they watched Hermione teaching Neville a Scouring Charm to 
remove the frog guts from under his fingernails.

> "Yeah," said Harry. "Moody."

> It was common knowledge that Snape really wanted the Dark Arts job, 
and he had now failed to get it for the fourth year running. Snape 
had disliked all of their previous Dark Arts teachers, and shown it - 
but he seemed strangely wary of displaying overt animosity to Mad-Eye 
Moody. 

zgirnius:
It seems apparent to me that the common knowledge referred to here is 
Harry's, the final paragraph explains to the reader the basis for Ron 
and Harry's otherwise cryptic exchange. I do not consider that this 
rules out Snape previously wanting the job (or being believed to want 
it).

> Bart:
> I'm not crazy about the idea of attaching Muggle dates to the HP 
books, especially since I don't recall any actually being used in the 
canon (the source, I assume, is from JKR interviews). 

zgirnius:
No, it is based on the books, actually. In CoS, Nick has a 500th 
deathday party. He states he died in 1492. That puts the start of CoS 
in 1992. The dates I am using are all based on that calculation and 
internal time references.

Bart:
Because of the time stretching because of the less than 1 book/year 
schedule, I prefer just using internal references. "Zero points" 
could be, for example, Harry Potter's birth, the attack on GH, the 
beginning of book one, and, of course, the current book. Also, note 
that from CoS, we know that Riddle was using "Lord Voldemort" at age 
15. So we don't really know how long TR was openly operating as LV 
before he became considered to be a theat, and when ANYBODY outside 
of Tommy's circle (including DD) found out that he was Voldemort. 

zgirnius:
I am happy to restate my argument in terms you find suitable. I will 
use the year CoS started as my zero point. As I will be dealing in 
round numbers, we need not fix a specific date in that year.

At roughly zero minus 50 years, Tom was a schoolboy, an 
upperclassman, who opened the Chamber of Secrets. Shortly thereafter 
(likely zero minus 48 years) Tom finished school. According to DD 
in "Lord Voldemort's Request" he immediately accepted a job at B&B. 
After working there for an unspecified period, he then disappeared 
for 'ten years', as per DD. 

So, how long do you think Tom would have worked as a store clerk? I 
can't see much more than five years, personally, and expect rather 
than it was a year or two. However, in case you see things 
differently...surely we can agree that by about zero minus 40, Tom 
had left his job, and by zero minus 30, he has the job interview? 
That would mean that by the time Hagrid makes his comment in CoS, it 
has been 30 years that the curse has been in effect.

> Bart:
> I'm sorry, but "no one's lasted long fer a while now" 
and, "nobody's lasted for more than one term in 20+ years" are VERY 
different things. Yes, Hagrid's statement would be technically true, 
as would, "The Atlantic Ocean's been known to be wet." 

zgirnius:
And you would expect that degree of precision in a statement by 
Hagrid, of all characters? Rubeus "Follow the Spiders" Hagrid? If he 
considers his pal Aragog's little kiddies nothing worth warning 
someone about, I can see why the travails of assorted DADA teachers 
past fail to arouse his concern.

Keep in mind that not all disappearances had to seem odd or 
traumatic, as well. Quirrell going on a sabbatical, for example. 
Teachers leaving to start families, take other jobs, leaving for 
undisclosed reasons with cover stories that sound innocuous, etc. 
Hagrid might not even pay close attention enough to *know* it has 
been less than a year in every single case. If the person in question 
is not a friend, how relevant is it to him who teaches DADA, and for 
how long?