Maraurders/he exists

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 168277

> 
> Mike:
> But neither Harry nor James would be wise to turn his back on Draco 
> or Severus, imo.

Pippin:
But in the Pensieve that's exactly what happens. Snape
wanders outside, parks himself in the shade to study his
exam paper, and the Marauders take no notice of him at 
all until Sirius gets bored and James is looking for something
to liven him up. At which point, Sirius has to "turn his head"
to look at Snape. 

In fact, even after the conflict starts, James turns his back
on Snape to talk to Lily. "Behind [James] the Impediment
Jinx was wearing off." Also, "Go out with me and I'll never
lay a wand on old Snivelly again" doesn't make it sound
as if Snape is the one keeping things stirred up.

> > Pippin:
> > I thought the point under discussion was whether JKR planned
> > to repair the Marauders' tarnished image by showing
> > that Snape had in some measure earned a drubbing by terrorizing
> > the other kids. <snip>
> 
> Mike:
> Not some nebulous *other* kids, and not "terrorizing". Specifically 
> MWPP and probably moreso just the PP. And an ongoing and to be 
> continued hexing war between these combatants. 

Pippin:
JKR has had three opportunities to say that James was just retaliating
for previous incidents in an ongoing war. The character who finally 
delivers this information to Harry is going to have to have a really 
good reason for keeping it back, or we're going to be thinking that 
JKR cheated. Care to speculate on what it might be?

 Nor were Harry and Draco having any kind of a hex war when 
Dumbledore compared them to James and Snape, IIRC, Draco 
had never even tried to hex Harry at that point. 

Mike:
And we did not get to see Snape's Best Memory.

Pippin:
But we will, since we're going to find out why Snape's patronus
would be a spoiler.
 
> > Pippin:
> > The slack of indicating that hexing people for fun was okay because
> > it was cool and everyone was doing it.  
> 
> Mike:
> OK, I understand that, but methinks you are using the wrong example 
> when you refer to the "Frosty Christmas" conversation as proof. Lupin 
> is already responding to Harry's question in the key of Half-Blood 
> Prince. Lupin is explaining that just because James used it, that's 
> no reason to believe that James invented it. Lots of people used it. :
> He's not speaking to the "everybody was doing it, so it was OK for 
> James". He's speaking to the "James didn't invent it and he's not the 
> HBP". 

Pippin:
But Lupin seems not to understand at first that Harry is wondering
if  James might be the HBP. When Harry says, "My dad used it, 
I saw him in the Pensieve, he used it on Snape."  Lupin's smile 
is "a little too understanding" --and then he makes
to excuse James's conduct. Then Lupin looks into Harry's face
and finally gets it, "James was a pureblood, Harry, and I promise
you, he never asked us to call him "Prince." 

Mike:
And this isn't a particularly egregious  hex, either.

Pippin:
Well, that depends, doesn't it? Hermione didn't think it was
benign, and she's not exactly a shrinking violet when it comes
to retaliatory hexing.

> > Pippin:
 
> > But taking  Harry's POV, it looks as if James and the 
> > whole WW would have been better off if James had let Snape 
> > meet his fate. Hands up, anyone who doesn't think *that* 
> > is going to be reversed. 
> > 
> > I thought so.
> 
> Mike:
> ::Raising my hand (I think)::
> Are you asking if the WW would have been better off without Snape's 
> part in things? If that is the question, then my hand stays up. Snape 
> doesn't deliver the prophesy, we don't get the murders of James and 
> Lily and no "chosen one". (Canon as it stands now. Not necessarily my 
> take on things, but that's for a different discussion)

Pippin:
If I understand you correctly, you do expect this view of James's
actions to change by the end of Book Seven, yes? That's what I
was asking. Does anyone think that in the end it will be shown
that Snape's life wasn't worth saving? 

Mike:
. Even in war the  reasons for *killing* your commanding officer are 
few and far  between, and you didn't have one of those reasons. Period.

Pippin:
I believe there is a documented case (though unfortunately I
don't have the reference) in which a soldier shot his mortally wounded
commanding officer in order to convince the enemy he was a turncoat.
The soldier was acquitted of murder. If Snape has information which
is vital to Harry's victory, and which cannot be given to Harry yet because
of the mind link, and if Dumbledore was beyond saving, then 
what else should Snape have done? 

Mike:
> Oh, and if it turns out that you didn't kill Dumbledore... I still 
> hope you suffer a great deal of pain... and we'll talk about the 
> redemption part after. ;D
>

Pippin:
See, I  think JKR believes that wanting to make people suffer, even
guilty ones, is a base instinct.  And she's going to make danged sure
that by the time she's done, we think so too. Just IMO, likewise.

Pippin