Harry's detention in HBP /Slytherins LONG READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

Zara zgirnius at yahoo.com
Fri May 4 02:07:04 UTC 2007


No: HPFGUIDX 168307

> > Betsy Hp:
> > I actually do think Snape is a pretty noble man.  He's never 
> struck 
> > me as the type to torment innocents just to get his jollies.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I am **honestly** trying to understand the view that Snape would 
> never torment an innocent just to get his jollies, I really am, but 
> when from so many pages I see Snape doing just that and in 
something 
> which I just don't see how it can be interpreted differently, it is 
> really hard to understand where you are coming from.

zgirnius:
Surely you have read the other interpretations, and can 
intellectually comprehend that others hold them, even if you find 
them unconvincing? I mean, I will go through your list but it sounds 
like this will not be productive.

First day of class - alternate explanation. Snape does this every 
year to someone, not because he enjoys it greatly, but because it is 
his teaching style. He is sending the message that kids will learn, 
or else, in this class. He does not care if this makes them nervous, 
he figures that will just motivate them not to draw his attention, 
which can be achieved, in his view, by coming to class prepared and 
following instructions.

Taking the book - he did say it is a rule. Surely, you can understand 
that someone might believe this statement?

Belittling James? That is certainly not nice, he does it on several 
occasions, some of which are more understandable than others. He had 
a role in James's death, and I think he recognizes and regrets that, 
but it is clear also that he also blames James for this. I do not 
believe this is because Snape is a sadist and looking for reasons to 
hurt Harry, but because this is his own psychological defense 
mechanism to deal with his guilt; one we see explicitly in action in 
Harry in HBP.

In GoF he wanted Harry to tell him what was going on with Crouch, 
which Harry did not want to do. He was not making fun of Harry.

In OotP, you suppose he broke the potion, this is not shown in the 
book as Harry's back is turned.

Nothing Snape does regarding Neville and his potions difficulties is 
in my opinion motivated by a desire to cause pain. I think Snape 
would like nothing better than to be quit of teaching Neville, 
because he is frustrated by what seems to him an inability or 
complete unwillingness to pay attention to what he is doing. I find 
the descriptions of him in clear contrast to descriptions of Dolly 
Dearest, who *is* a sadist, and is delighted when Harry, or someone 
else, gives her the opportunity to punish them. Snape is annoyed.

The detentions in HBP, Snape does not even watch what Harry is doing. 
He sits at his desk working. This does nto suggest enjoyment to me.

> Alla:
> But when Snape's treatment of Harry is characterized as **noble**, 
> I find it mind boggling, personally. Sorry! Again, respect and all 
> that, just do not get.

zgirnius:
*That* is the nature of your problem, then. I believe Betsy HP was 
expressing an overall judgment of Snape, not just his actions towards 
Harry as a teacher. I would agree Snape is a jerk to Harry (and gape 
incredulously at his characterization as a child abuser, it seems, 
with all due respect, that people are reading a different edition 
from mine, with some other character named Snape). Though he is a 
jerk, I do not believe sadism is a primary, or even secondary, motive 
for how he acts with regards to Harry. Dislike, frustration, anger, 
guilt, sure. I also think he risked exposing himself to Voldemort as 
a spy by sending the Order to save Harry (and Neville) in OotP, too. 
And I believe he has done other difficult and dangerous things to 
help the 'good side', the first of which would have been to warn 
Dumbledore about the Potters and switch sides. And to me, this 
matters a lot more. So I would second BetsyHP.






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