Harry's detention in HBP /Slytherins LONG READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 168309

> zgirnius:
> Surely you have read the other interpretations, and can 
> intellectually comprehend that others hold them, even if you find 
> them unconvincing? I mean, I will go through your list but it 
sounds 
> like this will not be productive.

Alla:

That's the thing. Of course I can comprehend that others hold them 
and respect that fact, it is just I do not understand how others 
arrive at them. Like what I brought as an example many times - I 
disagree that Snape DD!M, but I sure understand how the clues can be 
interpreted that way.


Zgirnius: 
> First day of class - alternate explanation. Snape does this every 
> year to someone, not because he enjoys it greatly, but because it 
is 
> his teaching style. He is sending the message that kids will 
learn, 
> or else, in this class. He does not care if this makes them 
nervous, 
> he figures that will just motivate them not to draw his attention, 
> which can be achieved, in his view, by coming to class prepared 
and 
> following instructions.


Alla:

Sure, I would understand that. If we had support that every year 
Snape does that, meaning picks up a victim and does that to the 
child. If I would read from older students that, I would certainly 
get that interpetation. The thing is I did not.


Zgirnius: 
> Taking the book - he did say it is a rule. Surely, you can 
understand 
> that someone might believe this statement?

Alla:

No, I actually don't. It sounds too absurd for me to even entertain 
the possibility to be true. I understand that others may believe it, 
just do not see the reasoning for that.

 
Zgirnius:
> In GoF he wanted Harry to tell him what was going on with Crouch, 
> which Harry did not want to do. He was not making fun of Harry.

Alla:

Harry wanted to see Dumbledore and Snape was stopping him from doing 
it and smirking, no?


Zgirnius: 
> In OotP, you suppose he broke the potion, this is not shown in the 
> book as Harry's back is turned.

Alla:

Well, to me it is the same as the book, I believe that it is 
suggested so clearly that nothing else comes to my mind and of 
course Snape's "Ooops" makes it even stronger for me.


Zgirnius: 
> The detentions in HBP, Snape does not even watch what Harry is 
doing. 
> He sits at his desk working. This does nto suggest enjoyment to me.

Alla:

Do you make anything of Snape's and the record of their greatest 
achievement remains? Any feeling behind that remark?

 
> > Alla:
> > But when Snape's treatment of Harry is characterized as 
**noble**, 
> > I find it mind boggling, personally. Sorry! Again, respect and 
all 
> > that, just do not get.
> 
> zgirnius:
> *That* is the nature of your problem, then. I believe Betsy HP was 
> expressing an overall judgment of Snape, not just his actions 
towards 
> Harry as a teacher. 

Alla:

Then it is :) Because even that I can understand, meaning in 
relation to Snape serving DD, etc, but if his teaching of Harry is 
described as noble that I do have trouble understanding.

But oh well, I will live with it. Because really I had agreed to 
disagree many times, but as I told Betsy, I was able to see her POV 
on many things these days clearer than before, I am happier when I 
can see where opposing POV arrives from, here I do not see canon 
supporting it and do not understand the interpretations.

Like how to put it? We cannot help which characters we like and 
which we dislike and we cannot often explain it logically, but when 
character's actions are being characterised as noble or bad, there 
is often reasoning for that and I am trying to grasp it. Never mind, 
not making much sense.



> zgirnius:
>I would agree Snape is a jerk to Harry (and gape 
> incredulously at his characterization as a child abuser, it seems, 
> with all due respect, that people are reading a different edition 
> from mine, with some other character named Snape).

Alla:

Heeee, yes this feeling I so know.


Zgirnius:
 Though he is a 
> jerk, I do not believe sadism is a primary, or even secondary, 
motive 
> for how he acts with regards to Harry. Dislike, frustration, 
anger, 
> guilt, sure. <SNIP>


Alla:

Right, I always thought that his smirking shows sadistic enjoynment. 
But again, that I can get too. Disagree but understand, it is the 
**noble** teaching is what makes me boggle.