Snape as Noble teacher/ Slytherin

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 168326

> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> I'm rejecting the whole idea that we should be looking for which 
ones are 
> the "good kids." I think the problems with Slytherin have been 
going on for 
> a long time and reflect a lot of stuff going on in this society. I 
think 
> they all probably will reject Voldemort because they'll be nothing 
left of 
> him. But I don't think JKR has to have Slytherins completely 
change. She 
> just has to show us that things can change and will be different.
> 
> That's why, imo, it's good to be focusing on the kids that are the 
worst of 
> them. <SNIP>

Alla:

I think I like it better than I thought initially. Would it be fair 
to restate your position as something like that you do not dispute 
the badness in those kids and house Slytherin in general, you just 
think that there is also  goodness in them that needs to be brought 
to the surface or at least the potential goodness that others need to 
see and reconcile with Slytherins?



> Alla:
> 
> Didn't Pansy called Ginny Muddblood in HBP or was it Blayse?
> 
> Magpie:
> Blaise called her a Blood-traitor (Mudbloods are Muggleborns...err, 
if 
> you're a Pureblood supremist, that is).

Alla:

Oh, DUH. Why would mudblood come to my mind in regards to Ginny, have 
no idea. Thanks.

> Betsy Hp:
> Well, I'm pretty sure I won't change your mind <g> but let me go 
> through the various examples you've raised and try and see if I 
can't 
> explain how I look at Snape in those scenes.  As I say, I doubt 
> you'll *agree* with me, but it might help clarify my thinking?  
Maybe?

Alla:

Right, it is not about changing my mind or yours ( obviously if that 
sometimes happens, that is cool, but that is so not what I am 
after :)).



> 
> > >>Alla:
> > <snip>
> > I mean, would he attack a boy who just came to the whole new 
world 
> > on his lesson, even when the boy is quite likely to be nervous?
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> This is the first potions lesson in PS/SS.  And I think everything 
> that occurred there was Snape's normal teaching method.  I'd bet 
> every first year got to hear that speech and I'll bet every first 
> year class had near impossible questions thrown at them.  It's 
> Snape's "pay attention, this will not be an easy course and I will 
be 
> *extremely* demanding" moment.
> 
> That he singled out Harry (because I'm fairly sure he spread his 
> questions around normally) has nothing to do with Snape enjoying 
> watching Harry suffer, IMO.  Snape is going on the offensive trying 
> to head Harry's ego (and the class's hero-worship) off at the 
pass.  
> Does Snape misread Harry?  Yes.  Harry wasn't buying all the 
sighing 
> and giggling and fainting his classmates (and teachers) were doing 
> around him; it made him uncomfortable if anything.  But Snape did 
not 
> know that.
> 
> But I don't see this as Snape enjoying watching Harry squirm for 
the 
> sake of making a small child squirm.  Especially since Harry 
> *doesn't* squirm.  (Actually, I thought he was very Snape-like in 
his 
> refusal to fold when faced with overwhelming odds. Oh, those two. 
<g>) <SNIP>


Alla:

But look at what you wrote though :) I am going to say something 
about this and then just cut all other explanations because you know 
what you wrote anyways and ask a question.

How does what you wrote here shows noble teacher's behavior? I mean, 
teacher is not supposed to downsize child's ego, no? He is supposed 
to make him interested in learning, etc.

And Harry read his books, etc. He is excited, curious. He views Snape 
as having a gift to keep class quiet and here he comes. But whatever 
I am just saying that I do not get how this behavior can be 
considered noble, even in your interpretation that is.

And with other examples it gets even better. It seems like with scene 
in GoF we agree that Snape was mocking Harry and that OOP scene was 
bad as well, we jjust disagree as to "degree of badness", no?

But then you go ahead and characterize Snape as noble teacher towards 
Harry. So, I am just not seeing where it is coming from.

And with Neville, I just want to say that IMO JKR showed very nicely 
by mentioning that Neville had detention with Snape again in GoF that 
nothing that Snape did in PoA helped Neville one bit.

Like what Zara said - I do get "Snape as jerk", you know?

Look, as I said it is obviously my problem, not yours, I just always 
find it frustrating for myself when I do not understand something, 
that is all :)

We will I guess eventually leave it at agree to disagree and maybe 
one day I will have a revelation and understand this line of 
reasoning.

It is like, I don't know, say somebody interpets that Dudley is being 
noble when he attacks Harry. I would respect that somebody feels that 
way, I would just be having a very hard time to figure out why.

>> > Alla:
> > Harry wanted to see Dumbledore and Snape was stopping him from 
doing 
> > it and smirking, no? <snip rest of post--sorry!>
> 
> Carol:
> 
> Snape must have known that Dumbledore was right behind him. Yes, he
> was giving Harry a hard time, pretending to doubt his story, but at
> the same time he was keeping him where he was so that he would be
> there when Dumbledore finished descending the staircase. Had Snape 
not
> kept Harry there, Harry would have gone off on a fruitless search of
> some other corridor. <HUGE SNIP and canon> Far from delaying
> Harry, Snape actually saved him time.
<SNIP>

Alla:

I know this interpetation.  But that is sort of makes Snape's 
tormenting the innocent just to get his jollies argument stronger, 
IMO.

If Snape was standing there to make sure Harry will wait till DD 
comes down, what should he had done unless he wants to make fun of 
Harry just **for the sake of having fun at his expense**
I think he should have said - wait Potter, Dumbledore is coming. What 
does he do instead?  Not that. That tells me that he wants to have 
fun at Harry's expense to enjoy it.
No matter how upset Harry is and how much in need of help he is.

IMO of course,
Alla