Snape as Neville's teacher (was:Re: Snape as Noble teacher...)

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 168372

Ceridwen:
> Many people have a subject that is not their forte.  My subject is 
> math.  In three semesters, I have nine top marks, two second top 
> marks, one second lowest, and one failing.  The last two are in 
> Algebra.  I would love to have "scraped through" Math 102 the first 
> time and not have had to take it over.
> Why can't Neville just be bad at Potions?  Why do all students in 
> the books have to be good, or at least competent, in all their 
> subjects, unless they're the goons, like Crabbe and Goyle?  Why is 
> it assumed that Neville would be better, at least competent if not 
> passing with flying colors, if someone else taught him Potions?


Dana:
Yes, he can be just bad at potions but that is not what Betsy stated 
and I quote:

Betsy previously:
I *still* think Snape *does* work as a teacher for Neville in a 
particularly weak subject.  A lesser teacher would have quit on 
Neville, but Snape kept at it and Neville passed and kept on 
passing.  

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/168359

Canon never stated Neville passed on potions, he actually failed in 
his first year and probably every year after that and we still do not 
see him perform decent in the 5th year, so there is actually no proof 
at all that Snape's teaching methods worked for Neville. And to be 
honest they did not work for Harry either because he passed despite 
Snape not because off Snape. (if Slughorn was not the new potions 
teacher, Harry would not even have been able to pass through to NEWT 
level classes as Snape only accepted an Outstanding and not an 
Exceeding expectations like Harry and Ron both got for OWL's)

It is interesting you bring up Crabbe and Goyle because we do not see 
Snape bullying them while they are goons, as you state here, now do 
we? They both do not make it to NEWT level potions either. So if 
Snape is not playing favoritism and he does his bullying because it 
is so effective (and noble) why don't we ever see him have a go at 
either of them. 

I find your reaction very typical because now it has suddenly nothing 
to do with Snape bullying Neville that Neville was bad in potions, no 
it was because Neville was just bad at the subject. 
Whatever might be the case we certainly do not see Neville perform 
good because of Snape's bullying. 

(it is typical because things always are turned around when things 
starting to look bad for Snape, now it is Neville being bad 
regardless of what Snape does, Snape did not kill DD because DD asked 
him to, Snape did not goad Sirius out of hiding and is not 
responsible for Sirius actions, while Sirius goading Snape to go 
after Lupin makes him responsible for Snape almost getting killed, 
Snape is always telling the truth but when he claims things that 
don't make him look very good he is suddenly lying through his teeth 
ect, I have been accussed of looking at things one sided but when 
people do this to excuus Snape's horrible behavior it is suddenly 
different) 


Ceridwen:
> If Neville is with Potions the way I am with Algebra, then Snape 
> did a good job with what Neville brought to the class.  No teacher, 
> no matter how nice, no matter what style he or she used, would make 
> a Potions genius out of him.  I'm too lazy to grab HBP, but did 
> Harry ever know what Neville got on his Potions O.W.L.?

Dana:
Neville was bad at transfiguration too but he still squeezed an 
acceptable out of this OWL. Potion OWL are not mentioned by 
McGonagall and Neville did not get to pass on to NEWT level potions 
now even that Snape was no longer the teacher but McGonagall not even 
mentions his grade so you can be pretty sure that he got less then an 
acceptable on that one. 

I was great at math but other students weren't but my teacher was so 
good as a teacher that she even got the minimum of good grades out of 
her bad students and believe me it had nothing to do with bullying 
them but giving more attention to those who needed it while letting 
those who did not need it take there time to work on there own. 

To me it is actually very illogical for Neville to be bad at potions 
because the kid is great with Herbology and he does very well in 
charms (with an Exceeding Expectations on his OWL). Taking care of 
herbs has pretty much the same basics as brewing potions as you need 
to remember what the plant will need to grow, it is not that 
different from adding ingredients in a cauldron to brew a potion and 
many ingredients of a potion are made out of herbs, so why is Neville 
so bad at potions he is probably more familiar with most of the 
ingredients then anyone else. Could it be because Snape causes the 
kid so much anxiety that he fails regardless? No, probably not it was 
just a coincidence that Neville's boggart turned in to Snape, he 
wasn't really scared of Snape because his teaching methods were so 
noble how could they possibly cause so much anxiety that a kid fails 
because of them. 

JMHO

Dana

PS: I'm sorry to be sarcastic again but the entire topic of Snape 
being a noble teacher is making me a little nauseous because again 
people are making excuses for Snape's behavior and it somehow being 
good for a teacher to pick on a kid because he hated his father or 
because the kid might get an attitude for living through a murder 
attempt and being famous for it while that same murder attempt coast 
him both his parents. Yes, Snape is so noble to want to protect Harry 
from the bad effects of fame because it is surely something Harry 
must be so proud off that his parents died and he lived and not cause 
him horrible grief and it was nothing this teacher ever did that 
contributed to Harry having such a miserable life. No, he must 
against all odds prevent Harry turning in to his father, a man he 
never got to know because of it all, what a noble guy that Snape to 
pick on kids that both lost their parents at a young age. Snape 
misuses his authority on those kids and it is never stated that he 
got any kid interested in the subject more because of his teaching 
methods, it is only stated that he could get his class silent. 
Besides Snape singles out Harry before Harry exchanges looks with 
Ron. 

PS/SS pg 101 UKed Paperback,

Snape, like Flitwick, started the class by taking the register, and 
like Flitwick he paused at Harry's name.

`Ah, yes,' he said softly, `Harry Potter. Our new – celebrity.'

Draco Malfoy and his friends Crabbe and Goyle sniggered behind their 
hands. 

End Quote of canon. 

It is Snape who emphasis Harry's celebrity status and nothing Harry 
did. 3 students react to it but it is not enough for Snape to start 
bullying them? And downplay there ego's? No, he takes it out on Harry 
because the kid exchanges looks with his friend and might have an 
enlarged ego because of a status he doesn't know anything about and 
not understand either. 
The kid would have wasted away in front of the mirror if DD had no 
relocated it because he wants to be with his family so bad. 

JMHO