[HPforGrownups] Snape as Neville's teacher (was:Re: Snape as Noble teacher...)

Sun May 6 14:08:33 UTC 2007

No: HPFGUIDX 168373

Dana:
 And to be
honest they did not work for Harry either because he passed despite
Snape not because off Snape. (if Slughorn was not the new potions
teacher, Harry would not even have been able to pass through to NEWT
level classes as Snape only accepted an Outstanding and not an
Exceeding expectations like Harry and Ron both got for OWL's)

Magpie:
I agree with you about Neville and Snape, but I think Harry's passing 
because of Snape and not just despite him. An E (which he also gets in other 
tough classes iirc--he only gets one O) is a perfectly good grade. While I 
think Harry shouldn't have to deal with Snape's personal attacks and that 
they don't do him any good in class, Snape's teaching *style* doesn't seem 
to be a problem for Harry at all. His style isn't even different as the HBP.

Dana:
It is interesting you bring up Crabbe and Goyle because we do not see
Snape bullying them while they are goons, as you state here, now do
we? They both do not make it to NEWT level potions either. So if
Snape is not playing favoritism and he does his bullying because it
is so effective (and noble) why don't we ever see him have a go at
either of them.

Magpie:
I don't think not making it to NEWT Potions is a good way to judge 
somebody's skill, since NEWT only takes O students or later O and E 
students--it raises the bar too high. None of the teachers have taught Ron 
if that's the level we're judging by. Neville doesn't make it into NEWT 
Transfiguration either, but he still passed.

But still yes, Snape does not go after C&G the way he does Neville--though 
iirc he goes after Neville when he keeps exploding things and as long as C&G 
don't do that they won't be yelled at. He seems to be pushing to get them 
through DADA when they fail that OWL. He starts out pretty much saying he 
assumes they're all dunderheads and they have to prove otherwise.

I would guess that Snape isn't *that* different in the way he treats Crabbe 
and Goyle--meaning that he's probably just as sarcastic and impatient, but 
no, he never goes after them like he does Neville. I think Neville does 
bother Snape personally in ways that they don't because of his personality 
and that Snape's response to that doesn't do Neville any good at all.

-m

I find your reaction very typical because now it has suddenly nothing
to do with Snape bullying Neville that Neville was bad in potions, no
it was because Neville was just bad at the subject.
Whatever might be the case we certainly do not see Neville perform
good because of Snape's bullying.

(it is typical because things always are turned around when things
starting to look bad for Snape, now it is Neville being bad
regardless of what Snape does, Snape did not kill DD because DD asked
him to, Snape did not goad Sirius out of hiding and is not
responsible for Sirius actions, while Sirius goading Snape to go
after Lupin makes him responsible for Snape almost getting killed,
Snape is always telling the truth but when he claims things that
don't make him look very good he is suddenly lying through his teeth
ect, I have been accussed of looking at things one sided but when
people do this to excuus Snape's horrible behavior it is suddenly
different)

Ceridwen:
> If Neville is with Potions the way I am with Algebra, then Snape
> did a good job with what Neville brought to the class.  No teacher,
> no matter how nice, no matter what style he or she used, would make
> a Potions genius out of him.  I'm too lazy to grab HBP, but did
> Harry ever know what Neville got on his Potions O.W.L.?

Dana:
Neville was bad at transfiguration too but he still squeezed an
acceptable out of this OWL. Potion OWL are not mentioned by
McGonagall and Neville did not get to pass on to NEWT level potions
now even that Snape was no longer the teacher but McGonagall not even
mentions his grade so you can be pretty sure that he got less then an
acceptable on that one.

I was great at math but other students weren't but my teacher was so
good as a teacher that she even got the minimum of good grades out of
her bad students and believe me it had nothing to do with bullying
them but giving more attention to those who needed it while letting
those who did not need it take there time to work on there own.

To me it is actually very illogical for Neville to be bad at potions
because the kid is great with Herbology and he does very well in
charms (with an Exceeding Expectations on his OWL). Taking care of
herbs has pretty much the same basics as brewing potions as you need
to remember what the plant will need to grow, it is not that
different from adding ingredients in a cauldron to brew a potion and
many ingredients of a potion are made out of herbs, so why is Neville
so bad at potions he is probably more familiar with most of the
ingredients then anyone else. Could it be because Snape causes the
kid so much anxiety that he fails regardless? No, probably not it was
just a coincidence that Neville's boggart turned in to Snape, he
wasn't really scared of Snape because his teaching methods were so
noble how could they possibly cause so much anxiety that a kid fails
because of them.

JMHO

Dana

PS: I'm sorry to be sarcastic again but the entire topic of Snape
being a noble teacher is making me a little nauseous because again
people are making excuses for Snape's behavior and it somehow being
good for a teacher to pick on a kid because he hated his father or
because the kid might get an attitude for living through a murder
attempt and being famous for it while that same murder attempt coast
him both his parents. Yes, Snape is so noble to want to protect Harry
from the bad effects of fame because it is surely something Harry
must be so proud off that his parents died and he lived and not cause
him horrible grief and it was nothing this teacher ever did that
contributed to Harry having such a miserable life. No, he must
against all odds prevent Harry turning in to his father, a man he
never got to know because of it all, what a noble guy that Snape to
pick on kids that both lost their parents at a young age. Snape
misuses his authority on those kids and it is never stated that he
got any kid interested in the subject more because of his teaching
methods, it is only stated that he could get his class silent.
Besides Snape singles out Harry before Harry exchanges looks with
Ron.

PS/SS pg 101 UKed Paperback,

Snape, like Flitwick, started the class by taking the register, and
like Flitwick he paused at Harry's name.

`Ah, yes,' he said softly, `Harry Potter. Our new - celebrity.'

Draco Malfoy and his friends Crabbe and Goyle sniggered behind their
hands.

End Quote of canon.

It is Snape who emphasis Harry's celebrity status and nothing Harry
did. 3 students react to it but it is not enough for Snape to start
bullying them? And downplay there ego's? No, he takes it out on Harry
because the kid exchanges looks with his friend and might have an
enlarged ego because of a status he doesn't know anything about and
not understand either.
The kid would have wasted away in front of the mirror if DD had no
relocated it because he wants to be with his family so bad.

JMHO

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