Snape as Neville's teacher and noble sadist

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 168376

> Pippin:
> Um, unless you know a cure for sadism, then yes, Snape has to be
> a sadist or die. 
He does not have to perform sadistic acts, but if he
> has to punish  someone for non-sadistic reasons then he is going 
to 
> enjoy it. You sound as though you think Snape has a choice about
> whether to have sadistic feelings or not, and I don't think anyone
> can choose how they feel. Even if Snape hides his feelings with
> occlumency they are still there.


Alla:

I certainly think that Snape has a choice whether to show sadistic 
feelings or not, that is why no, sorry not buying his nobility. I do 
not think that Snape cannot control himself, I mean if he gets his 
kick of imagining innocent kids suffer, go to dungeons and do it 
there. I certainly think he can **Not** act them and since I think 
he **does** act on them, big time, I do not think he is noble.


Pippin:
> So is it noble to have those feelings and not act on them? I
> think so. I mean, maybe you can't see the proof that he is not
> acting on them, but consider what he *could* do. 


Alla:

Yes, I can see a proof to the contrary.


Pippin:
> Why take just seven points from Harry in all of SS/PS? Why not
> take a hundred extra points for talking back like McGonagall does,
> and not even from Harry but from Hermione and Neville who didn't
> say anything? 
> 
> Not only does Snape not have  a blood drawing quill (despite 
> magic for preventing scars), in six years he never once 
demonstrated
> a poison by killing or torturing any live animals in class.
> There are all sorts of things Snape could have done to make
> Harry's life miserable, and he didn't  do them. Clearly he would
> have enjoyed it, so what was stopping him if not self-restraint? 
> Barty Jr's example shows he could've gotten away with a lot
> more if he'd wanted to.


Alla:

What's stopping him if not self restraint? Well, for once it could 
be that he and Dumbledore had the monthly chats and no matter how 
disgusting I find Dumbledore not interfering in how Snape already 
behaved towards Harry and Neville, maybe Snape knows that there is a 
limit to DD patience and if Snape will use blood quill, he will 
interfere?

I mean, there is no reason why DD would be able to have chats with 
Dolores dear and legilimence her, but Snape sounds like very likely 
candidate to me.

So, say Snape is afraid that Dumbledore will go back on his word and 
sends him back to Azkaban. Speculating obviously, but I do not see 
self restraint anywhere in Snape's list of reasons, can be wrong of 
course.

Besides, maybe Snape sees with what he does **already** he frightens 
these kids enough - he is Neville's boggart, etc, so why do 
something else if he is getting his kicks already?

 
> Alla: 
> > That is why I am guessing ( and it is really just my assumption 
so 
> > feel free to correct me if I am wrong) why vampire Snape was so 
> > attractive to many people. I mean, really he is **vampire**, he 
poor 
> > dear just cannot help himself, he needs to feed on kids negative 
> > emotions or something, so the fact that he does not turn those 
kids 
> > into vampires must mean that he is so very noble.
> 
> Pippin:
> This just made me smile, it is *sooo* not what I was thinking. I
> felt that Vampire!Snape might explain Snape's coldness, Voldemort's
> immortality, and offer a reason for Snape to have wanted Lupin's 
life, or
> vice versa.  Oh well.

Alla:

Okay thanks, my assumption was wrong then.



> 
> > >>Alla:
> > And with Neville, I just want to say that IMO JKR showed 
very      
> > nicely by mentioning that Neville had detention with Snape again 
in 
> > GoF that nothing that Snape did in PoA helped Neville one bit.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I totally disagree.  I think we've got the proof of the dog that 
> *doesn't* bark (Neville's potions are no longer exploding with 
> regularity), and the proof of the dog that *does* bark (Harry 
> compares his own potion to Neville's and realizes that Neville's 
is 
> better).  [The barking dog was a bit of Sherlock Holmes humor; I 
> apologize for the self-indulgence. <g>]
> 
> So I tend to think that JKR showed us that Neville *doesn't* have 
the 
> same sort of problems in Potions that he did back during his 
crises 
> year in PoA.
> 

<SNIP>


Alla:

The thing is she does not talk about Neville in Potions in GoF ** at 
all**, does she not? Unless I forgot something, which is totally 
possible. So I would think it was not plot necessary. And if as you 
are saying Neville improved so very much, why would she feel a need 
to insert that line about detention at all?

I mean, why is it needed here unless to show with one brief brush 
that no, Neville did not improve at all, and why would he react to 
the bully, really? When we know that he is afraid of Snape so much 
that Snape is his boggart?

When we **know** that gentle handling helps Neville to get much 
better grades than calling him **idiot boy** and threatening to 
poison his pet.





Dana:
<BIG SNIP>

> To me it is actually very illogical for Neville to be bad at 
potions 
> because the kid is great with Herbology and he does very well in 
> charms (with an Exceeding Expectations on his OWL). Taking care of 
> herbs has pretty much the same basics as brewing potions as you 
need 
> to remember what the plant will need to grow, it is not that 
> different from adding ingredients in a cauldron to brew a potion 
and 
> many ingredients of a potion are made out of herbs, so why is 
Neville 
> so bad at potions he is probably more familiar with most of the 
> ingredients then anyone else. Could it be because Snape causes the 
> kid so much anxiety that he fails regardless? No, probably not it 
was 
> just a coincidence that Neville's boggart turned in to Snape, he 
> wasn't really scared of Snape because his teaching methods were so 
> noble how could they possibly cause so much anxiety that a kid 
fails 
> because of them. 
><BIG SNIP>


Alla:

With this I agree 100%. Besides the clear proof that we see that 
gentle hand helps Neville better, as I think AD once said herbology 
and potions are interrelated disciplines and let's say now Snape is 
professor Sprout customer as to ingredients.


While Neville may not be genuis in Potions, there is no reason IMO 
for him to do especially bad and be so frightened of the same 
plants, when now they are simply being cooked.

He IMO should be much more enthusiastic of the subject because 
plants are present here too, if for no other reason.

Say, he was doing that badly on first lesson - one advice, one extra 
study lesson and Neville may have been already feeling much better.


You know, Dana, I think a lot of people think that per JKR Neville 
is the most appropriate candidate to become a teacher in the 
epilogue.

Many people think that it will be Herbology he will be teaching. I 
will bet you now that he will be teaching potions and maybe JKR even 
mention how different his lessons were from the ones that greasy 
bastard was teaching, hehe. Or at least I would love that to happen 
very much. Heeeee, with Snape doing community service and servicing 
as Neville's assistant. MAHAHAHAHHAHA.

I know, I know, that will never happen. But that is another of 
Snape's punishments I would love to see. Bring me this ingredient 
and hurry up, you idiot or you will go back to Azkaban. Too bad 
Neville is too nice to do such a thing, LOL.

But it sure is a fun scene for me to imagine.