[HPforGrownups] Slughorn favoritism WAS Re: Snape as Neville's teacher

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168524

 Alla:
>
> I am not sure why is it surprising for you that Slugghorn may not be
> considered not so bad because he is nice guy. I mean, **absolutely**
> that is one of the reasons why I consider him to be not so bad.
>
> He **is** practicing favoritism, who can argue with that - it IS
> canon, but to me it is, I don't know, so much more **harmless** than
> what Snape does?

Magpie:
My point was that Snape's favoritism is a sign that he should never be 
teaching, but obviously favoritism in itself isn't always a problem at all, 
or even unusual. Otherwise Slughorn would inspire more horror, since that's 
what he's about.

Alla:
>
> But I am still yet to read about Slughorn being some student's
> boggart, I am also still yet to read about Slugghorn breaking the
> potion.

Magpie:
I admit, this just doesn't mean that much to me. A kid having his mean 
teacher as his boggart doesn't necessarily seem that bad. Not that I don't 
take the pain Neville suffers seriously for himself, but I do think Snape is 
just his mean teacher. I could easily imagine many teachers people would 
consider good turning up as a kids' boggart.

Alla:
> Oh, another thing - of course he picks whoever he wants in his club,
> but I also do not remember him **grading** unfairly, which IMO what I
> would consider truly ruining students career.

Magpie:
Neither does Snape ruin anyone's career grading unfairly that we see. 
Slughorn, however, is the teacher building careers as a hobby and choosing 
which people to introduce to others, and so perpetuating the type of network 
he represents. So if we're talking about affecting kids' careers, I think 
Slughorn's obviously more about manipulating that area than Snape is. 
Croneyism can be a serious problem in the professional world.

Alla:
> It is like I don't know, just seems to me that Slug club is
> **extracirricular" activity, something students do not have an
> entitlement to, unless teacher picks them? While IMO they are
> entitled to be treated decently on the lessons.

Magpie:
Slughorn's extra curriculum activity spills over blantantly into his 
lessons. He doesn't yell at people, which is certainly a plus, but I don't 
know whether I'd felt like I'd been treated all that decently in his class.

Alla:
> I do agree with Lupinlore that nice guys often get a pass and should
> get a pass more than not nice guys. Slugghorn has his favorites, I am
> just yet to see him **harming** those whom he does not favorite. He
> is just ignoring them, which is NOT good of course, but I just see it
> as less harm if it makes sense.

Magpie:
Sure they often get a pass--but why assume Slughorn seems so nice to kids in 
is class? (Or assume that nice always should get a pass, since "nice" is 
different than "good?") Slughorn might not be Snape, but he seems 
potentially just as discouraging and he's insulting in his own way. When we 
start talking about the "harm" they cause I think unfortunately we're always 
coming down to something as potentially unimportant than how you feel about 
a class. Slughorn doesn't seem to harm anybody the way Snape harms Neville, 
no. But I think Slughorn's contributing to something far bigger and 
potentially harming by working his own people into positions by introducing 
them to other of his own people. That could certainly affect the world and 
the chances of others in it. McClaggen isn't mistaken in the way he 
approaches Harry for the Quidditch team.

Hickengruendler:

While that's true, at least Slughorn gives everyone a fair chance.
Sure, he has his favourites, and blatantly so, but at least everyone
can belong to his group of favourites, if they excel academically. If
a student convinces him, they can join the elitist circle. With
Snape, it seems to me, that nothing could change his pre-existing
likes or dislikes. (I am basing this mainly on his treatment about
Hermione).

Magpie:
Slughorn also elevates people due to their blood and family connections, and 
can dismiss them if their personality doesn't measure up or their 
connections aren't what he thinks. Academic excellence is one thing that 
might catch his eye (Hermione also brings being Harry's best friend to the 
table), though other things can count against that. Slughorn is looking for 
people he thinks have star quality, and that leaves out plenty of deserving, 
potentially brilliant students. All the kids in his Potions class have shown 
academic excellence, after all, by getting Os. I remember reading an article 
about the Ivy Leagues that very much related to Slughorn, because they look 
for the same things. Schools that go strictly for academic brilliance don't 
produce half as many famous rich people as the Ivy Leagues.

Hickengruendler:
That said, I find Slughorn frustrating as a teacher, because I had
someone like him. He was my music teacher and he blatantly favoured
those, who were in the school choir. He was always nice and didn't do
anything to put the others down, but nonetheless his favourism was
obvious and I ended up really disliking this man, because of this.
This sort of overshadows my opinion about Slughorn as well, even
though I do like him as a character. I also really hesistate to call
Slughorn actually nice.

Magpie:
I agree--and I don't think you're unreasonable at all to have wound up 
disliking this teacher for that reason. That's the way I probably would have 
reacted too. Snape could be just as difficult in getting to like you 
personally if he didn't start out liking you, but Slughorn is much more 
about personally liking people. And I think students have good reason to 
realize at a certain point that they're never going to be in his inner 
circle.

Hickengruendler:
The way he treated the students in the train,
who didn't fulfill his expectations certainly wasn't nice. Didn't he
hand out sweets and ignored the "unsatisfying" students the second
time around?

Magpie:
Yes--when I said he "seems nicer" or whatever I said I was intentionally 
trying to say something that was lukewarm and didn't speak to necessarily 
being good. He's not nice on the train--nor is he showing any moral judgment 
in rejecting Malfoy. Alla refered to him putting Malfoy in his place, but 
it's just a coincidence that Slughorn's personal protection leads him to 
reject any kid with DE parents. Draco says Lucius was "a great favorite" of 
his, just like many other DEs, and that's not surprising, imo.

-m