Snape as Neville's teacher / JKR's sexy men roll call

[Dana]

No: HPFGUIDX 168586

Carol:
> However, "how else did LV know the DoM ordeal went sour" can be
> defiintively answered, and it has nothing to do with Snape. Perhaps
> you've forgotten the scar connection between Harry and Voldemort:
> That's how Voldemort knows that the Prophecy orb has been shattered:
> 
> Harry tells Bellatrix, "There's nothing to summon! It smashed and
> nobody heard what it said, tell your boss that--." Bella says he's
> lying and then starts screaming to Voldemort not to punish her. 
> Harry feels terrible pain in his scar but says, "Don't waste your 
> breath! He can't hear you from here," to which Voldie 
> replies, "Can't I, Potter?" And after a moment, he adds, "So you 
> smashed my Prophecy? No, Bella, he is not lying. I see the truth 
> looking at me from within his worthless mind. Months of 
> preparation, months of effort, and my Death Eaters have let Harry 
> Potter thwart me again" (OoP Am. ed., ellipses eliminated).
> 
> What summoned Voldemort? Not Snape, who certainly could not have 
known
> that the Prophecy orb was smashed. It was the mind link, the scar
> connection, which allowed him to hear Harry's words and sense their 
truth.

Dana:
The problem is that LV showed up at the moment Harry tells Bella that 
there is nothing to summon because it is smashed and right after that 
Bella starts begging LV not to punish her. So LV heard Harry tell it 
to Bella and had nothing to do with the scar link. Him seeing that 
Harry is not lying is because he is the greatest Legilimens the WW 
has to offer. And why does LV has to ask Harry if he already 
witnessed it by the scar link? 

The problem is that there is no canon proof that LV can actually 
witness Harry's thoughts through the scar link only that he could 
implant feelings and visions, Harry only feels LV inside him once 
right after the attack on Arthur when Harry felt like wanting to kill 
Dumbledore. Besides he does not say he sees Harry is not lying from 
within his own head but that he sees it *looking back* at him from 
within his (Harry's) worthless mind. He is using legilimency on Harry 
and not the scar link. He also would know that DD is down stairs but 
then why is he acting so surprised? 

Pg 717 UKed Paperback

`What-?' Cried Voldemort, staring around. And then he 
breathed, `Dumbledore!' 

End quote canon. 

There is another interesting choice of words he uses regarding Bella. 

`Do you think I have entered the Ministry of Magic to listen to your 
*sniveling* apologies?' (same page as above canon quote) 

Very interesting choice of words but you probably disagree. 

The problem is that if LV knew through the scar link that the 
prophecy was lost and the Order and DD had arrived then he has no 
reason to enter the MoM at all and if he was monitoring the whole 
ordeal then why did it take him so long to intervene? Because he 
didn't know because if he had entered Harry's mind then we would have 
witnessed it because every time the link is open Harry experiences 
pain and we never witnessed that during the whole ordeal. 

Also the month of planning LV is referring to do you really believe 
he would let it all to chance that Harry might or might not show up 
that night? Or that he did not use Snape to keep him informed about 
Harry's whereabouts? Because I do not. Snape actions of that night 
are relayed to us by DD and that is second hand information and DD's 
explanations have some wholes in it. 

Like Rookwood telling LV, no one but LV or Harry could get the 
prophecy. Snape could never have gotten so much information from 
Harry through legilimency because one, Harry is avoiding eye contact 
(pg 520 chapter: Seen and Unforseen) and two, Snape tells us eye 
contact is essential to Legillimency and he also tells us "The mind 
is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts 
are not etched on the inside of skulls, to be perused by any invader. 
(Pg 468/469 chapter: Occlumency). 

So how does DD know what Rookwood told LV about the protection on the 
prophecy? 

`And then you saw Rookwood, who worked in the Department of Mysteries 
before his arrest, telling Voldemort 
' (pg 730/ 731 chapter:  the 
lost prophecy) 

Canon might not directly tell us that DD got this from Snape but DD 
is contributing ever other source of information so if either 
Hermione or Ron (who are the only other people even knowing Harry had 
this dream) would have told him then he would have said so and I do 
not believe they would go behind Harry's back on this, so for me this 
leaves Snape and the problem is Snape could not have gotten such an 
extended report from Harry on what Rookwood told LV because Snape 
only saw just the room and the man in just a flash, as he tells us in 
the first lesson,  that he only sees flashes of what Harry sees and 
the entire time Snape is asking Harry questions Harry is looking 
every where but at Snape. 

The images go by so fast that they not even register with Harry 
himself so Snape could not ever have gotten more then a flash and not 
an entire conversation of about 10 minutes. So to me Snape had far 
more information then he let on and he is only relaying information 
to DD that he got directly from Harry as DD tells us and if DD really 
had gotten more from Snape then he would have told Harry because he 
was defending Snape in that scene but DD never does use anything to 
let Harry see Snape is working tirelessly for the Order and we 
actually see that DD does not know more then Harry does about what LV 
was up to. 

To me this is proof that Snape knew far more about what LV was 
planning then he ever shared with DD and why I hold him accountable 
for the whole ordeal at the DoM. Snape uses this information in my 
opinion to safeguard his own cover to give DD the impression he is 
really on his side but he actually does nothing to help DD because 
when DD hears about Rookwood, he thinks it was even more important 
for Harry to close his mind, yet on the next lesson Snape cancels it. 
Coincidence? Maybe but I'm not buying. 

We also see that Lucius was in charge of this job and we hear two 
people make reference to Snape's connection to Lucius. One you do not 
trust and is of course Sirius and the second is Umbridge that told 
Snape that Lucius speaks so highly of him and then of course Narcissa 
goes to Snape for help. Do you really believe Lucius would not use 
his contact at Hogwarts to know what Harry is up to? Of course Snape 
himself reveals his contact with Lucius too when he tells Sirius, 
Lucius recognized him on the platform. 

To me this whole ordeal with Snape and what happened in OotP stinks 
and the explanations of Snape's actions DD gives us, has wholes in 
them so big you can almost drive a truck through them. The timeline 
on the Kreacher revealing information to Narcissa and LV hearing he 
can't get the prophecy other then himself or Harry are off by a mile. 
Kreacher is lost before Christmas and Rookwood tells LV about the 
protection in January so it was certainly not Narcissa's information 
that set LV on a different course and both Bella and Narcissa are 
eerie silent when Snape claims to be responsible for Sirius death 
while Narcissa might have had her reasons to keep silent, Bella 
certainly did not but she said nothing. 

Snape is not LV's man either because he never revealed to LV that the 
prophecy was protected and DD claims in the same scene that the Order 
already knew this, so in my opinion so did Snape but I do not believe 
he withheld this information out of loyalty to the Order but only 
because it would be known it was him who told LV until Rookwood was 
the one to reveal it and DD now had to worry LV would shift his focus 
on to Harry and what happens next? DD is removed from Hogwarts by the 
daughter of a MoM employee, Hagrid is removed by MoM employees and 
McGonagall is taken out at the same time and then we hear Umbridge 
tells Snape how very social she is with Lucius when she tells him he 
speaks so highly of him. Coincidence? Maybe but I'm not buying.  

JMHO

Dana suggesting that people answering her rhetorical questions with 
canon should first analyze canon a little better to make sure it 
actually answers the rhetorical question.