[HPforGrownups] On Moral Compasses/Slughorn & favoritism

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 168619

BetsyHP
> Hermione is *all over* the Slugclub.  Does it bother her that Ron
> isn't included in this club?  Not that I've seen.  Hermione's a tad
> bit uncomfortable discussing said club in front of Ron but not so
> uncomfortable she doesn't *go*.  And Hermione actively supports
> Slughorn's efforts to recruit Harry into the Slugclub, but doesn't
> seem to try and get Ron included.  Which suggests to me that, when
> she's in the in, Hermione is perfectly comfortable with exclusions.
> Even if some pretty decent people (I'm assuming Hermione thinks Ron
> is decent) are excluded.

Magpie:
Yeah, I thought Hermione's reaction to the Slug Club was kind of wonderfully 
repulsive, especially knowing Slughorn. And one of those places where I 
thought maybe Rowling was being true to the character and showing a weakness 
without giving any authorial judgment in the text as she might have if it 
were, say, Blaise. Certainly she has Harry and Ginny both reject what 
Slughorn is offering. That could on the one hand just show that they're in 
sync in their beliefs that way (though Harry as the Chosen One naturally 
would see the Slug Club as small potatoes and Ginny is so effortlessly 
superior in all ways that she could easily dismiss it too).

But then there's Hermione whose vanity is flattered. I mean, first, part of 
the reason Slughorn likes her is because of Harry--ah, you're Harry's 
Muggleborn friend who's the best in the class! (Are you watching, Harry?) 
And second, she's Muggleborn and Slughorn thinks Muggleborns are inferior. 
His first conversation with Harry, to me, sums up why I can't see his 
teaching methods as not being sinister:

Canon:
"Your mother was Muggle-born, of course. Couldn't believe it when I found 
out. Thought she must have been pure-blood, she was so good."

Magpie: Ick. I'm sure that must be nice for someone to hear--but not unusual 
in the real world. "Your mother was black. Couldn't believe it when I found 
out. Thought she must have been white, she was so good!" And he thinks it's 
a compliment. That's how much he believes it.

Canon:

"One of my best friends is Muggle-born," said Harry, "and she's the best in 
our year."

"Funny how that sometimes happens, isn't it?" said Slughorn.

"Not really," said Harry coldly.

Magpie: Yeah, not really at all.

Canon:

Slughorn looked down at him in surprise. "You mustn't think I'm prejudiced!" 
he said. "No, no, no! Haven't I just said your mother was one of my all-time 
favorite students?

Magpie:

You mustn't think I'm prejudiced just because I just said to you that 
Purebloods are better Wizards and it's just kind of funny how sometimes a 
Muggleborn's best in the class. If I like your mother, I couldn't be 
prejudiced, could I? Why, I give her extra props for overcoming her bad 
blood and impressing me! She could totally be my Muggle-born mascot!

Canon:

And there was Dirk Cresswell in the year after her too - now Head of the 
Goblin Liaison Office, of course - another Muggle-born, a very gifted 
student, and still gives me excellent inside information on the goings-on at 
Gringotts!"

He bounced up and down a little, smiling in a self-satisfied way, and 
pointed at the many glittering photograph frames on the dresser, each 
peopled with tiny moving occupants.

Magpie:

In fact, here's a list of every exceptional student from the inferior race I 
ever put in my club!

While some of the things Snape does are inexcusable, I still find it more 
sinister to think of this guy so consistently applying his views to his 
classes of kids aged 11-17. There is something almost preferable about 
somebody who went through an intense period of calling people Mudbloods and 
then actually changed by the time they taught than this.

So in Slughorn's class and if you're from the "right family" you've got a 
point in your favor. If you're Pureblood you're assumed to have more 
potential and so deserve more encouragement and attention. Though you can 
lose those points and go down to average if you're personally unattractive 
or socially unskilled (even if you're good at the subject). If you're 
Muggleborn he assumes you're inferior. Maybe you'll be exceptional and prove 
him wrong--but you'll have to prove you're one of those anomolies where it 
works out in that funny way. I thought JKR was intentionally not showing 
Hermione at her best having her so flattered to be in the nice man's club, 
myself.

It's ironic, actually, because Ron himself has always been so completely 
associated with not having this kind of blood prejudice despite being in a 
Pureblood family--(his family doesn't show up on Slughorn's radar despite 
being Pure). He's the one who explains how "most of us" know that this stuff 
is rubbish, and there's something kind of interesting about Hermione's 
reaction to the club. Hermione has always had a very different relationship 
to praise than Ron, obviously. Sometimes this leads to bad behavior from 
Ron, but other times Ron's instincts are better.

The type of Pureblood elitism Slughorn has fits with his hiding from the 
DEs, I think. He's supporting their agenda, but doesn't want to face that, 
so he just hides. And I don't think they'd be looking to recruit him just 
because of his contacts either. I suspect, especially based on his 
conversation with Harry, that he's probably given a lot of people the 
impression he'd fit right in. You can support a racist agenda while still 
making exceptions for the "good" ones. I wouldn't be surprised if Slughorn 
had plenty of memories of conversations that might make our hair curl.

This is another slightly odd thing about the series for me. That prejudice 
is supposed to be the central idea that defines the bad side, and yet more 
often than not it seems like the result is that bigotry is far more 
tolerated in this series than it would be in another book. Like, I can't 
believe Slughorn's conversation with Harry above and his class wouldn't be 
kind of shocking in a real world scenario.

Alla:
I have no doubt that Ron will turn out to be a capable leader, except he is 
not yet even in the beginning of HBP IMO. On Quidditch field even He goes 
through same insecurity issues he already went through in OOP. I am confused 
why JKR did it, but I certainly understand how Slugghorn has no signs of Ron 
leadership skills when he starts his club. I know Ron has it in him, does 
Slugghorn know that? Or thinking that Ron has less potential in Potions?

Magpie:
Slughorn doesn't see leadership skills in most he invites into the club on 
the train. He sees family connections. Or Ginny, who seems to be a type of 
cheeky pretty girl he likes, being like Lily. Ron, no, doesn't have these 
things, but why should that translate into any less attention than any other 
student in class?

Alla:

Teachers, Pippin, I meant real teachers, **not** DE masquerading as 
teachers. Sure, what Fake Mad Eye did to Neville was worse than what Snape 
did to Harry.

I'd like to see real teacher who did anything close to what Snape did to 
Harry to any other student. And yeah, I know about Umbridge, but she was 
worse to Harry, not anybody else.

Magpie:
I think Pippin's point is that those people were not considered out of the 
ordinary, so this kind of behavior is perfectly fine for teachers at 
Hogwarts. And they were all teachers. They were all working as teachers and 
accepted as such.  In fact, Crouch!Moody was a favorite teacher even after 
he was outed as a DE.

Alla  again:
Although come to think of it, as far as we know, Barty Jr. has no
personal connection to Neville, so what he did to him was as far as I am 
concerned any sick and twisted soul would do.

Snape **has** personal connection to Harry. If he is feeling guilty
indeed for helping disposing of Harry's parents,which I doubt, I
would think he would be as humble as possible.

Magpie:
Barty disposed of Neville's parents.

-m