GoF fight between Harry and Ron WAS:Re: On the perfection of moral

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 168869

> Montavilla47:
> Sorry, Alla.  I don't think it's a big deal.  It certainly doesn't 
make
> Harry a bad kid or anything.  But his forgiveness of Ron isn't
> immediate after Ron comes to apologize, either.  There's a 
> moment when he actually seems angrier than ever, because
> he thinks Ron is pretending that they were never on the outs to 
> begin with.
> 
> Here's the passage:
>> <SNIP of the passage, go UPTHREAD to read it>
> GoF, US ed.  p. 358.
> 
> It's pretty clear that Ron has changed his attitude from the 
moment he gets in the tent.  
> He's white as a ghost.  But it takes Harry another moment to let 
go of *his* anger and take 
> Ron back.
> 
> Again, this isn't anything horrible on Harry's part.  It's sort of 
a natural reaction.  But he 
> could just have easily taken Ron back just from seeing that white 
face--since it's obvious 
> that Ron's most important concern right then is not pride, or 
anger, but his friend's well-
> being.
> 
> Funny, now I'm seeing a parallel between this moment and the whole 
Percy story.  As soon 
> as he realizes that he's wrong, Ron's ready to forget the fight so 
much that it's like it never 
> existed for him.  But Harry can't let go of it immediately--and he 
almost misses that 
> opportunity to make up because he wants Ron to apologize.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Eh, we just have to agree to disagree on that one. Ron IMO behaved 
like a jerk for several weeks. Sure, he realised eventually that he 
was wrong. IMO he should not have doubted Harry in the first place 
and believe him.

I am not making a bigger deal out of this fight than it was, really. 
I love Ron, but I most certainly think that **moment** that it took 
Harry to take his anger back is nothing in comparison to what Ron 
put Harry through during those weeks.

Harry **needed** him and Ron was not there for him. That was wrong 
in my view.

Again, I think of it as fight between friends, but certainly not 
Ron's finest moment in my view, just like Harry had those in OOP.

So I do think that Harry immediately forgave Ron, because moment IMo 
does not count and you do not have to convince me that it does not 
make Harry a bad kid. I think he was the wronged party in this 
fight, period. Ron IMO should have trusted him and stand by him just 
as Ron stood by him through OOP.

Found my old post with these quotes, hehe.

""Oh right," said Ron. "I thought you might've told me if it was the 
cloak. . . because it would've covered both of us, wouldn't it? But 
you found another way, did you?" "Listen," said Harry, "I didn't put 
my name in that goblet.  Someone else must've done it."
Ron raised his eyebrows.
"What would they do that for?"
"I dunno," said Harry. He felt it would sound very melodramatic to 
say, "To kill me."

Ron's eyebrows rose so high that they were in danger of disappearing 
into his hair.
"It's okay, you know, you can tell me the truth," he said.  "If you 
don't want everyone else to know, fine, but I don't know why you're 
bothering to lie, you didn't get into trouble for it, did you?  That 
friend of the Fat Lady's, that Violet, she's already told us all 
Dumbledore's letting you enter.  A thousand Galleons prize money, 
eh?  And you don't have to do end-of-year tests either. . ."
"I didn't put my name in that goblet!" said Harry, starting to feel 
angry.
"Yeah, okay," said Ron, in exactly the same sceptical tone as 
Cedric.  "Only you said this morning you'd have done it last night, 
and no one would've seen you.. . . I'm not stupid, you know."
"You're doing a really good impression of it," Harry snapped.
"Yeah?" said Ron, and there was no trace of a grin, forced or 
otherwise, on his face now.  "You want to get to bed, Harry.  I 
expect you'll need to be up early tomorrow for a photo-call or 
something."
He wrenched the hangings shut around his four-poster, leaving Harry 
standing there by the door, staring at the dark red velvet curtains, 
now hiding one of the few people he had been sure would believe him."

-ch.17, am.edition


Alla:

It is like DUH Ron, you never heard of people trying to kill Harry 
before.

I know people wrote amazing essays on this one, introducing Ron who 
feels betrayed.

I am with Hermione on this one - I think Ron was jealous indeed.

Which sure does not make him a bad kid, but makes Harry anger very 
understandable to me


""Oh Harry, isn't it obvious?" Hermione said despairingly. "He's 
jealous!" "Jealous?" Harry said incredulously.  "Jealous of what?  
He wants to make a prat of himself in front of the whole school, 
does he?"
"Look," said Hermione patiently, "it's always you who gets all the 
attention, you know it is.  I know it's not your fault," she added 
quickly, seeing Harry open his mouth furiously.  "I know you don't 
ask for it.. . but - well - you know, Ron's got all those brothers 
to compete against at home, and you're his best friend, and you're 
really famous - he's always shunted to one side whenever people see 
you, and he puts up with it, and he never mentions it, but I suppose 
this is just one time too many. . .
"Great," said Harry bitterly.  "Really great.  Tell him from me I'll 
swap any time he wants. " Tell him from me he's welcome to it.... 
People gawping at my forehead everywhere I go. . ."
"I'm not teiling him anything," Hermione said shortly.  "Tell him 
yourself.  It's the only way to sort this out."
"I'm not running around after him trying to make him grow up!"  
Harry said, so loudly that 
several owls in a nearby tree took flight in alarm.  "Maybe he'll 
believe I'm not enjoying 
myself once I've got my neck broken or -"

- GoF, ch.18

Alla:

So, if you ask me, I think Harry forgave Ron **really** fast. 

JMO.