GoF fight between Harry and Ron (WAS:Re: On the perfection of moral)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 168874

Alla wrote:
<snip>
> 
> Harry **needed** him and Ron was not there for him. That was wrong 
> in my view.
<snip>
> 
> Found my old post with these quotes, hehe.
> 
> ""Oh right," said Ron. "I thought you might've told me if it was the
cloak. . . because it would've covered both of us, wouldn't it? But
you found another way, did you?" 

> "Listen," said Harry, "I didn't put my name in that goblet.  Someone
else must've done it."

> Ron raised his eyebrows. "What would they do that for?"

> *"I dunno," said Harry. He felt it would sound very melodramatic to
 say, "To kill me."* 

> Ron's eyebrows rose so high that they were in danger of disappearing
into his hair. "It's okay, you know, *you can tell me the truth*," he
said.  "If you don't want everyone else to know, fine, but *I don't
know why you're bothering to lie,* you didn't get into trouble for it,
did you?  That friend of the Fat Lady's, that Violet, she's already
told us all Dumbledore's letting you enter.  A thousand Galleons prize
money, eh?  And you don't have to do end-of-year tests either. . ."

> "I didn't put my name in that goblet!" said Harry, starting to feel
angry.

> "Yeah, okay," said Ron, in exactly the same sceptical tone as 
Cedric.  "Only you said this morning you'd have done it last night,
and no one would've seen you.. . . I'm not stupid, you know."

> "You're doing a really good impression of it," Harry snapped.

> "Yeah?" said Ron, and there was no trace of a grin, forced or 
otherwise, on his face now.  "You want to get to bed, Harry.  I 
expect you'll need to be up early tomorrow for a photo-call or 
something."

> He wrenched the hangings shut around his four-poster, leaving Harry
 standing there by the door, staring at the dark red velvet curtains,
now hiding one of the few people he had been sure would believe him."
Alla:
> It is like DUH Ron, you never heard of people trying to kill Harry 
before.
> 
> I know people wrote amazing essays on this one, introducing Ron who
feels betrayed.
> 
> I am with Hermione on this one - I think Ron was jealous indeed.
<snip>

Carol responds:
But, but, but Harry *doesn't* tell Ron that someone is trying to kill
him. That, to me, is the point. Again and again, starting with
deciding not to tell Dumbledore that he hears a voice hissing "Kill,
kill, kill!" in CoS, Harry hesitates to tell someone something
important, in this case "[because] it would sound very melodramatic."
Imagine the difference in this conversation if Harry had actually said
"To kill me" instead of "I dunno," and followed up with Fake!Moody's
theory (actually, his modus operandi, but Harry doesn't know that).

Maybe Ron *is* jealous (see below), but he also thinks that Harry is
lying to him since Harry has previously said that if he put his name
in the Goblet, he'd have done so with no one watching (GoF Am. ed. 259).

Ron gives his reasons for thinking that Harry is lying and why Harry
would want to put his name in (the prize money, which would be an
incentive for *him*--he doesn't realize that it would n't be for
Harry--and no end-of-year tests). Harry gives him *no* reasons to
believe that he's telling the truth. He simply insists that he didn't
put his name in the goblet and then gets angry at Ron for not
believing him, implying that Ron is stupid to think as he does (even
though Cedric thinks exactly the same thing).

BTW, I don't think Ron is jealous of Harry's being a TWT champion per
se. I think he'd be happy for Harry if he thought that Harry had put
his name in fair and square, or at least let him in on the secret of
tricking the goblet. He's jealous, or rather, hurt and resentful, of
being excluded. He thinks that Harry has found a way to get past the
age line without telling him and giving him a chance, too.

Please show me a point at which Harry presents convincing evidence
that Ron ought to believe him, and I'll agree that it's all Ron's
fault. As it is, I see it as an unfortunate misunderstanding resulting
from Harry's failure to trust Ron with (Fake!)Moody's comment about a
powerful Dark witch or wizard Confunding the Goblet of Fire as much as
from Ron's failure to take Harry at his word without evidence. It's
not as if Harry actually *said* that someone was trying to kill him
and Ron called him a liar. That's not what happened.

I don't know about you, but I think that if I were a fourteen-year-old
boy in Ron's position, I'd have been hurt and angry, too. My best
friend finds a way to put his name in the Goblet of Fire without
letting me in on the secret and won't even tell me how he did after
the fact. Just comes up with some dodgy excuse that "someone else
must've done it [put his name in the goblet]." Yeah, right, Harry! Ron
would think. Who'd have done that and why? (It's true, of course, but
Ron is no Legilimens. How is he supposed to believe Harry when Harry
is withholding the evidence that would corroborate his story?)

And note that Ron does come downstairs to check on Harry when Harry
talks to Sirius Black in the fire and is chased away. Harry never
gives him a chance to apologize because he thinks that Ron has come
downstairs to taunt him (355). (Harry later treats Seamus in exactly
the same way in OoP.)

Thank goodness for Ron's white face after the First Task. Not even
Harry could misinterpret that.

Carol, wishing that Hermione had kept her mouth shut rather than
trying to be helpful in this instance and that Harry would learn to
speak up instead of withholding important information from people he
can trust