Snape's involvement in the murder of Sirius

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 169075

> >>Jen:
> <snip>
> He [Dumbledore] concluded from the various bits of information 
> that Kreacher told Narcissa about the relationship between Sirius   
> and Harry, how Harry was the one Sirius cared most for in the world 
> and that the 'one person whom you [Harry] would go to any lengths   
> to rescue was Sirius Black.'  
> I took this information at face value on many readings of OOTP but 
> now the idea gives me pause.

Betsy Hp:
This is an interesting theory, Jen... *But* (heh, you knew that was 
coming) I have two big issues with it.

> >>Jen:
> From the way Kreacher is presented in canon he doesn't have the    
> kind of insight into human relationships that Dumbledore is giving 
> him credit for.  He's addled, out of touch with reality at times   
> and obsessed with Mrs. Black and all she stood for.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
This is issue number one.  I think you're selling house-elves short 
in general and Kreacher in particular.  I've always read Kreacher's 
mad act as just that, an act.  Just like every other house-elf we've 
met in canon, Kreacher has figured out a way to express his 
unhappiness and do pretty much as he wishes.  He's arranged it so he 
doesn't have to fake any genuine loyalty to people he sees as 
desecrating his home.  He's arranged it so he doesn't have to take 
part in that desecration, and he's arranged it so he can protect what 
he is able.  And he ran to the "enemy" at the very first opportunity.

> >>Jen:
> Kreacher doesn't understand why a 'Mudblood' would talk to him,    
> that it was Hermione's attempt at caring for him; to Kreacher it's 
> simply repugnance based on his indoctrination from the Blacks about 
> Muggleborns.

Betsy Hp:
Or, maybe Kreacher sees Hermione's sympathy as the DADA class saw 
Umbridge's sympathy: an attempt to indoctrinate him away from his 
personal beliefs and loyalties.  I do think Hermione was sincere in 
her pity (whereas I doubt Umbridge was all that sincere in hers), but 
that overly kind, ignoring of stated beliefs, can come across as 
pretty condesending when you're on the receiving end.

And, while I'm not a big fan of the twins, I wouldn't call them 
stupid.  Plus, they are a bit more familiar with house-elves than 
Hermione (all those kitchen raids).  So this exchange holds weight 
with me:

"It doesn't matter," Hermione whispered, "he's not in his right mind, 
he doesn't know what he's saying --" 
"Don't kid yourself, Hermione, he knows *exactly* what he's saying," 
said Fred... [OotP scholastic hardback p.108-109]

> >>Jen:
> Sirius caring about a half-blood, if Kreacher even noticed, would   
> be instantly dismissed as Sirius hurting Kreacher's mistress again 
> rather than something he would ponder and consider in light of a   
> relationship between Sirius and Harry.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But Kreacher already knows that Sirius left the family because of his 
different views on blood and status (and he probably knew who Sirius 
went to live with).  And he knew enough about Sirius to know that the 
best way to get Sirius out of the way was to hurt Buckbeak.  To my 
mind, the idea that Kreacher *wouldn't* realize that Sirius was 
Harry's godfather and close to Harry because of that, is a stretch.  
It'd mean that Kreacher really was not paying attention to what 
Sirius was up to.  Which strikes me as very un-Kreacher like.  And un-
house-elf like for that matter.

We see Kreacher do his best to stymie Harry when they're at Hogwarts 
(his ode to Draco's beauty was classic, IMO).  It makes sense that 
he'd do the same thing to Sirius.  He's already squirreling away 
those items he's afraid Sirius will destroy.  Why not also notice 
those items, creatures, and people, Sirius cares about?  Why not also 
notice what the boy who is the mascot for the "wrong side" is up to?

> >>Jen:
> <snip>
> Fast forward now to HBP and the conflicting information from Snape 
> about what he says he reported to LV about Black.  He tells Bella   
> in front of Narcissa that "the Dark Lord is satisfied with the 
> information I have passed him on the Order.  It led, as perhaps you 
> have guessed, to the recent capture and murder of Emmeline Vance,  
> and it certainly helped dispose of Sirius Black, though I give you 
> full credit for finishing him off."  (HBP, 'Spinner's End, p. 35,   
> UK ed.)  
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But, per Dumbledore, there is information about Sirius that Voldemort 
had, and that Dumbledore *knew* Voldemort had:

"Voldemort knew already, of course, that Sirius was in the Order, 
that you knew where he was..." [ibid p.831]

So Voldemort was getting some information from somewhere that 
Dumbledore was aware of.  It makes sense that the information was 
coming from Snape.  Dumbledore would need to give his spy *something* 
to feed the beast and keep suspicion to a minimum.

> >>Jen:
> Dumbledore heard and saw correct information from Kreacher and 
> via Legilimency, but I don't believe it was information Kreacher 
> actually thought of himself; rather, it was information *told* to   
> him by Narcissa.
> <snip>
> Snape would be very capable of seeing the relationship between     
> Sirius and Harry... <snip>
>
> As for motive, well revenge IS sweet.
> <snip>
> Having Dumbledore side with a Marauder again and trust Sirius'     
> story over his own may have been the last straw for Snape and he   
> decided to take matters into his own hands.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
And this is the second big issue I have with this theory.  I cannot 
see Snape taking matters into his own hands to the extent that he 
actively *lies* to Dumbledore.  Even if it's just by omission.

This is obviously my opinion, but I read Snape as being absolutely 
loyal to Dumbledore.  While Snape did have some autonomy (he'd have 
to to survive, frankly) I doubt any Order secrets were shared with 
Voldemort that Dumbledore didn't vet.  And those times Snape *did* 
have to make a snap decision (ie the UV) I think he'd let Dumbledore 
know about it at first opportunity.

Therefore, if Snape had been the one to tell Voldemort about Harry's 
relationship to Sirius, Dumbledore would have known about it 
immediately.  So there wouldn't be any confusion for Dumbledore about 
the source.

I do agree Snape enjoyed getting his revenge against Sirius, but I 
saw his vengence coming from the snarky and snide remarks made to 
Sirius throughout OotP.  He certainly seemed to be enjoying himself 
when he and Sirius went at it in front of Harry.  And that strikes me 
as more true to Snape's character than bald-faced lying to 
Dumbledore. 

> >>Jen:
> Loyalty to Dumbledore doesn't mean he believes what Dumbledore     
> believes or is going to act the way Dumbledore does.

Betsy Hp:
I agree with the second part of your statement, but totally disagree 
with the first part.  I think Snape's loyalty and the reason 
Dumbledore trusts him completely comes from the fact that both Snape 
and Dumbledore share pretty much the same beliefs.  Yes, they might 
dicker about methods and details (I actually see Snape throwing grand 
tantrums in Dumbledore's office, and Dumbledore getting a twinkly 
kick out of it most of the time) but when it comes to the end game 
and to their general guiding principles, I think Snape and Dumbledore 
are very much on the same page.

Actually, that's what I find so cool about Snape.  He's absolutely 
for Dumbledore's WW, Snape just brings the snark and leaves the lemon 
drops to Dumbledore. <g>

> >>Jen:
> I could see Snape considering the 'disposal' of Black to be an act 
> for the greater good of the cause regardless of how Dumbledore     
> might view it.

Betsy Hp:
But his actions in the Shack in PoA prove this idea wrong.  Snape 
begs for a "reason" to take down Sirius.  Which, IMO, shows just how 
much like Dumbledore Snape already is.

Betsy Hp