Lupin in the Shrieking Shack was Re: On the perfection of moral virtues.

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 169082

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
>  They are both teachers at the same school, have the same authority 
> in their present positions.

Betsy Hp:
Actually, Snape is the head of a house.  So he's got greater 
responsibility and therefore greater authority in some issues.  Plus, 
there's the seniority thing. <g>

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
> And apparently, that prank is what gives Snape the moral authority, 
> since he has no other evidence of Lupin's duplicity and his        
> assertion that Lupin was helping Sirius were not only a figment of 
> Snape's imagination, they were WRONG. 

Betsy Hp:
Um, no it wasn't.  Lupin *did* help out Sirius; he kept Sirius's 
secrets.  The only thing Snape was wrong about was Sirius being the 
traitor.  Lupin was *extremely* lucky there.

What Snape's past gave him was a keen insight into the various 
weaknesses of the Marauders.  And he was correct about Lupin.  Lupin 
put his reputation above the safety of Harry and his loyalty to 
Dumbledore.

> >>Mike:
> You presume that Dumbledore had invented his messenger Patronus 
> already.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Wait, is this in doubt?  I've always assumed that the Patronus 
messenger thing has been around since the first Order.  Do you have 
canon that suggests otherwise?

> >>Mike:
> Why do you not expect the same from Snape after he had the          
> situation under his control? Either the messenger patronus did not 
> yet exist, or they are both as culpable.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I see.  IMO, Snape barely had the situation under control when 
suddenly the Trio turned on him.  Plus, he would have needed to take 
his wand off of Sirius in order to conjure the Patronus.  A worry 
that Lupin did not have.

> >>Mike:
> In fact, if Snape's so sure of what he's going to find in the      
> Shack, why doesn't he messenger DD before he enters the tunnel? The 
> least he could do was warn DD that Lupin hasn't taken his Wolfsbane.

Betsy Hp:
Honestly, I think Snape *did* want to catch Lupin in the act.  I'm 
quite sure he was frustrated that Dumbledore put so much trust in 
Lupin.  Especially as he watched (from Snape's pov) Lupin seduce 
Harry to his side.

I'm guessing that (in a sort of Prank redux) Snape wanted to catch 
Lupin doing something so obviously wrong Dumbledore would be forced 
to face the fact that Lupin really *is* bad.  Just as Sirius had been 
shown to be.

I'm guessing that Snape didn't stop to send a Patronus once he 
stumbled upon the invisibility cloak because he wasn't sure exactly 
what Lupin was up to with Harry in the Shack.  (I don't think Snape 
knew exactly what was going on.  He expressed some surprise that 
Sirius was actually there.)

> >>Mike:
> The bottom line for me: Harry entered the Shack convinced Sirius 
> Black is the reason his parents are dead and therefore with        
> murderous intent in his heart. He has yet to be convinced of the   
> contrary when Snape makes his entry under the cloak. Yet Harry has 
> enough common sense to listen to Lupin's story, to at least hear    
> him out.

Betsy Hp:
Right, except Harry trusts Lupin.  This whole scene began because 
Snape *doesn't* trust Lupin.  Imagine the scene redone, only Harry 
bursts in on Snape doing an explanation soliloquy.  Do you think 
Harry would pause and listen, or do you think he'd wrap Snape up to 
take to the authorities?  Especially if he heard Snape admit to 
killing Dumbledore?

Honestly, I don't think Snape acts out of line here at all.  
Everything he does makes perfect sense, IMO.

> >>Mike:
> Snape is blinded by his own revengeful thoughts (and possibly by    
> his chance at receiving accolades for his part in capturing Black.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
That he doesn't take the opportunity to kill Sirius (and Lupin for 
that matter) tells me that Snape is not blinded by thoughts of 
revenge.  Either that, or Snape isn't really all that bloodthristy 
and is more interested in justice than vengence.  Which points to a 
man with a pretty strong sense of principle, IMO.

> >>Mike:
> And what was one of the reasons why Black is so reviled? Why       
> selling out to Voldemort; revealing the Potter's secret so LV can   
> act on the prophesy information that **who** brought to LV in the   
> first place? 

Betsy Hp:
I know!  Oy, the humanity! Gosh, it just explains so much of Snape's 
completely loosing it later, IMO.  He makes this horrible mistake, 
does his best to correct it, and Sirius Black comes along and screws 
the entire thing up.  Snape's wrong choice leads to death, despite 
his scramble to fix things, because of a man Snape had long thought 
less than trustworthy.  And then it turns out, Sirius was just stupid 
not evil!  I'd have lost it myself. <g>

> >>Mike:
> Explain to me again where Snape gets his moral authority! Two      
> adults in the Shack have Dark Marks on their forearms and they      
> aren't Sirius Black nor Remus Lupin.

Betsy Hp:
Snape's moral authority comes from being a person who acts.  Which 
automatically puts him on a higher moral plane than Lupin, even if 
Lupin is a good guy.  If Snape had taken the view that his mistake in 
his youth makes him unworthy of ever acting again, then yeah, he'd be 
just as weak as Lupin and not much with the authority.

But Snape also has the moral authority of being the only adult in the 
room completely loyal to Dumbledore.  You know, if the rest doesn't 
cut it for you. <eg>

Betsy Hp