On the perfection of moral virtues.

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 169090

> > Mike:
> > Can I just interject here for a moment. Why do we think that 
> > Snape "save Harry's life" by performing the countercurse?
> 
> zgirnius:
> Because Quirrell describes his actions as an attempt on Harry's 
> life, not an attempt to make himself a nuisance, perhaps?

Mike:
Yes, you are right of course, Quirrell did say that he tried to kill 
Harry. But I don't see how that changes my assertion. There remains 
the four points I brought up previously. And quite frankly, I still 
find Quirrell's action a impotent attempt. I suppose he was trying to 
make it look like an accident, but even that genious of magic Hagrid 
recognized Dark Magic at work. 

Why doesn't Quirrell sneak out to one of Harry's practices and hex 
his broom then? Not near as many other wizards around to counter his 
hex. It just seems to me that the attempt at the Quidditch match was 
so feeble in plan and scope so as to not count as a valid life 
threatening attempt. That is why I don't give Snape full marks for 
thwarting it, Quirrell's claim notwithstanding.


> zgirnius:
> Snape had been suspecting Lupin of being in league with Black all 
> year. If he had no idea he would be finding Black at the end of 
> that tunnel, I do not believe he would have gone. Lupin forgets his 
> potion and decides to go ride the change out in the Shack? Fine. 
> The motive to follow had to be that he thought he would finally get 
> the proof he needed that Lupin was in league with Black.

Mike:
I'll go along with that motivation for Snape. Which means to me that 
Snape is stuck in 'all the Marauders are evil' mode. As Snape has no 
proof for his assertion that Lupin is in cahoots with Sirius other 
than they were friends at school together. Oh yeah, and they all 
picked on Snape at school - ipso facto, they are all murderers or 
murder abetters. Well not James, he never made it that far. He 
probably would have had he lived longer, but Voldemort put a stop to 
that when he killed the Potters after learning of the prophesy 
from ... oops!


> zgirnius:
> I presume he planned to leave Lupin tied up in the Shack. 

PoA p. 360: He clicked his fingers, and the ends of the cords that 
bound Lupin flew to his hands. "I'll drag the werewolf. Perhaps the 
dementors will have a kiss for him too -"

Mike:
I guess not. :)

> zgirnius:  
> Even if he could get free, he could not get past the Willow in his 
> transformed state. 

Mike:
How do you figure? How did he get out all those times when they were 
the Marauders? Lupin would just move faster on all fours as a 
werewolf.


> zgirnius: 
> If we must call people stupid, I would reserve that word for 
> the ones who untied him and brought him back out of the Shack even 
> after Snape explicitly reminded them of the danger he posed (Sirius 
> and Lupin, that is). 

Mike:
But canon shows that Snape fully intended to "drag the werewolf" out 
himself. And though it's only a guess, I doubt tying up a werewolf 
can stop the transformation from happening. Werewolf!Lupin had no 
problem extricating from the shackles, I doubt the rope would have 
held him.

Besides, I called Snape stupid for being so hell-bent on catching 
Lupin in a compromising situation that he didn't stop to think how he 
was going to subdue a werewolf. He had the wolfsbane in his hands, 
didn't bring it. 

So maybe that means taking care of a werewolf isn't that hard, 
therefore not that life threatening, which is what precipitated this 
response in the first place.


> zgirnius:
> Lupin especially, who in the excitement of the night forgot 
> he had not taken his potion on *two* separate occasions.

Mike:
I see one, what is two?

But this brings up another point. Lupin sees the trio leave Hagrid's 
Hut with **Peter Pettigrew**. Then he sees *Sirius Black* join the 
fray and he, Ron, and Peter head into the willow. Followed shortly 
afterwards by Crookshanks, Harry and Hermione. Holy S***. The kids 
are heading to the Shreiking Shack with at least one *murderer*. 
Lupin cannot tell who has wands, whether Sirius is dragging Ron or 
Pettigrew is forcing Sirius and Ron at wand point.

But Lupin is irresponsible for not sitting in his office and waiting 
for Snape to show up with his potion. Just let whatever's happening 
happen, Lupin. Don't be bothered, remember, you're the wimpy do-
nothing of the Marauders.

Now Snape, he's the responsible one of the bunch. After all, he shows 
up in Lupin's office to find him gone and sees him heading for the 
willow. Well hell, he must be up to no good, so screw bringing the 
potion, he's gotta get going and catch Lupin at whatever he's up to. 
And if Lupin transforms in the meantime (without his wolfsbane), well 
he'll think of something. Besides, that won't look so good on Lupin's 
resume, now will it? mwahahaha.

Doesn't look so black and white after you take both what Snape and 
Lupin saw on the map into account, does it?


> zgirnius:
> It is also not clear that Snape originally intended to enter the 
> Willow. He followed Lupin out there, but it is possible, for all we 
> know, his discovery of Harry's invisibility cloak may have forced 
> his hand.

Mike:
Um, so what would you speculate his intentions were when he left the 
castle on Lupin's tail? I thought he knew Lupin was up to no good 
with Black. Doesn't he want to catch them red-handed?

So originally, he might have intended to sit outside the Willow 
throwing stones at it to see how far the Willow could hit them? Just 
waiting for the both of them to emerge? Doesn't sound like the 
Severus we all know and love <ack, cough, cough, ack>, sorry, 
something caught in my throat. ;))

Mike