Snape's involvement in the murder of Sirius

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 169147

> Carol responds:
> 1) There is no plot in canon to kill Sirius Black, only to get 
*Harry*
> to the MoM.

wynnleaf
One of the clearest signs of this is the actual fight at the 
Ministry.  There is no sign of any greater degree of effort on the 
part of the Death Eaters to attack or kill Sirius than there is to 
attack Tonks, Lupin or the others.  Sirius is quite obviously under 
*no greater threat* of attack than any other Order member present.  
Bellatrix may personally enjoy the idea of getting to kill Sirius, 
but no other death eater seems to have any specific agenda to see to 
his death.

No, the focus is clearly on the prophecy and Harry.  

If there was any specific plot to kill Sirius (not even hinted at in 
canon, btw), then we would surely see some sort of *concerted* 
effort to attack him.  But we don't see anything like that.  No one 
except Bella pays any more attention to Sirius then they do the 
other Order members.  In fact, Bella pays no *more* attention to 
fighting Sirius than any other DEs pay to other Order members, so we 
can't even see evidence that Bella cares any more about killing 
Sirius than other Death Eaters care about killing Lupin, Tonks, or 
anyone else.

Carol
> 2) There is no reason to kill Black, who is stuck in 12 GP and no
> threat to the DEs or Voldemort.

wynnleaf
Absolutely.  There seems to be some assumption that there was a "we 
hate Sirius" movement among the Death Eaters, motivating some sort 
of drive to kill him.  Why?  We know of no particular animosity that 
any DE has toward Sirius except possibly Bella.  There's no real 
strategic advantage in killing Sirius, unless the DE's thought that 
killing him would open up Grimmauld Place to them.  But even there, 
it's obvious that Sirius would have willed the place elsewhere (why 
leave it to Bella or Cissy, for goodness sake?!).  

Carol
> 3) Snape canonically did everything he could to keep Black from 
coming
> to the MoM (it was Black's own decision to come). Yes, it's DD 
telling
> Harry, but DD's source is Kreacher, who has no reason to lie on 
this
> point, nor does he seem to have been able to lie at all to DD.

wynnleaf
Further, there would have been several other Order members present 
when Snape contacted Grimmauld Place for the second time.  So 
several other Order members knew, and likely later conveyed to 
Dumbledore, the fact that Snape told Sirius to stay put.  Does 
anyone seriously think that Dumbledore wouldn't have "de-briefed" 
the rest of the Order members involved?

Carol
> 4) There was no guarantee that Black would be killed if he did 
come.
> Had he not been fighting recklessly on the dais in front of the 
Veil,
> he could not have been sent through it.

wynnleaf
A plot to kill Sirius would surely have included *how* to kill 
Sirius.  So what was the Plan?  Get him to the MOM and just 
naturally he would die?  If they could only lure him there, he'd 
just convienently die in one-on-one combat?  What kind of a Plan is 
that?  The DEs weren't planning on Sirius falling through the Veil.  
Neither were they attempting to gang up on him 2 or 3 to one to 
bring him down.  No, they treated him in the fight no differently 
from any other Order member, fighting mostly one on one with all of 
them.

As far as I can tell, the *only* "hint" for any plan to kill Sirius 
is Snape's comment to Bella about being partially responsible for 
his death.  Yet absolutely none of the evidence bears this out, 
because none of the evidence shows any plan to kill Sirius or any 
thing that Snape could have done to make Sirius' death any more 
likely than any other Order member at the MOM that night.

wynnleaf