Snape's involvement in the murder of Sirius

[Goddlefrood]

No: HPFGUIDX 169184

> Carol responds:
 
> The only problem is, 

Goddlefrood:

First of all let me thank you, imitation is, after all, the 
sincerest form of flattery.

> Carol:

> 1) There is no plot in canon to kill Sirius Black, only to 
> get *Harry* to the MoM.

Goddlefrood:

Should my post to which this reply referred be checked I do 
not believe you will find that I said there was a plot to kill 
Sirius. Even the sig line of that post does not make such a 
claim, I wonder why, therefore, this is brought in. The plot 
was actually to get the Prophecy, but that Harry was also a 
target is not something with which I would disagree.

> Carol:

> 2) There is no reason to kill Black.

Goddlefrood:

With reference to the above comments, I would agree, but that 
would not necessarily stop Severus hoping for Black's death.
Snape is far from the knight in shining armour that he is 
depicted as by many a DDM Snaper (to use, for once, an 
expression I'd rather not).

> Carol:

> 3) Snape canonically did everything he could to keep Black from 
> coming to the MoM.

Goddlefrood:

Of course, but it is also Snape's word that has to be taken on 
what he had done. It comes to us second hand through Dumbledore, 
as noted by Carol, but my earlier point was only that Snape is 
clearly an accomplished liar. He also detests Sirius and others 
have stated that there is a good reason for Sirius's death, 
including JKR herself. That is at least sugeestive that the 
literal interpretation of events should be treated with some 
caution.

> Carol:

> 4) There was no guarantee that Black would be killed if he 
> did come.

Goddlefrood:

Naturally, but then he was rather reckless in the way he 
engaged Bellatrix and overconfident also, perhaps as noted 
in a snipped portion from Carol. That Bellatrix was more 
complicit than any other is accepted, but ultimate blame, 
as in just about anything bad going on in the WW should 
be laid squarely at Lord Voldemort's door.

> 5) Snape certainly gave *some* information regarding Black, 
> probably that he had seen him in Animagus form at Hogwarts 
> just before his return, and he no doubt used that bit of 
> information to claim a share in Black's death, but it really 
> made no contribution to Black's death at all.

Goddlefrood:

Leaving this part in its entirety as it actually starts off by 
agreeing with a point I made earlier. By telling Lord Voldemort 
of Sirius's Animagus form Snape effectively condemned Sirius to 
12 Grimmaud Place. When a situation arose in which his Godson 
was in danger there would be no earthly reason to suppose that 
Sirius would sit tight while other Order members took care of 
it. Snape was the wrong person to be telling Sirius anything 
to Sirius's benefit, as Neri has also pointed out.

Red rags and bulls spring to mind.

> Carol, who is presenting canon here but assumes that 
> Goddlefrood knows the book well enough not to need page 
> numbers for these points.

Goddlefrood:

Well enough to know that other media are irrelevant, yes ;-)