Responses to Marietta (was: Misc. responses, some quite old)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 169299

---  "wynnleaf" <fairwynn at ...> wrote:
>
> > > wynnleaf
> > > It's interesting that to make Hermione's decision 
> > > "okay" readers generally have to add to canon some 
> > > extra aspect to it that isn't even hinted at in 
> > > canon.
> > 
> > bboyminn:
> > ...
> <snip>
> The problem is Marietta
> > is a minor subplot, so we have extremely limited
> > information on the subject. Limited information
> > opens the door to speculative resolutions.
> 
> wynnleaf
> Nevertheless, there's a difference between speculation
> based on specific hints and clues as opposed to simply 
> coming up with > completely non-canon explanations, ...
>
> 
>  Steve/bboyminn
> > The Pustules /might/ wear off, or they might not, both
> > are possible. Though admittedly with our limited 
> > information, we have seen no clear sign that they
> > are wearing off, but as I said, the story isn't 
> > over yet, and we have no clear sign that they are not
> > wearing off.
> 
> wynnleaf
> Let's put it this way.  We have no sign at all that they
> are wearing off.  ...
> 

bboyminn:

But we have very vague indication that they might be 
wearing off, which only serves to illustrate my point,
we have so little information that we simply don't know
/anything/, so all we can do is speculate. The vague 
indication has already been brought up by another 
poster, and it is that fact that Marietta went from 
wearing a ski-mask to just using make-up to cover 
her face. That MIGHT imply it is getting better, or
it might not, and that is they very point I'm making
over and over again, we don't have enough information
to do anything BUT speculate.

> > > wynnleaf:
> > > 2.  Marietta has to "do something," ...
> > > 
> > bboyminn:
> > ...
> > Marietta DID some thing to cause the acne, perhaps
> > some redeeming act will undo them. ...
> 
> wynnleaf
> One might as well speculate that there's a specialist
> on the other side of the world that's currently on 
> his/her way to Hogwarts and will cure Marietta ...

bboyminn:

Again, this illustrates my point precisely, there very
well MAY BE a specialist on the other side of the 
world winging his way to the UK to cure Marietta. But
we don't know one way or the other. That could very
well be how the situation is resolved in the next book,
it is as good as any other possibility. We can't base 
our speculation on cannon because on this limited
subplot issue there is so very very little cannon to
base anything on.

> > 
> > > wynnleaf:
> > > 3.  The hex is really just acne.  ... clear point
> > > in canon that her face was "horribly disfigured." 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > She is 'horribly disfigured' based on the INITIAL 
> > reaction of a teenage boy who is already in a very
> > stressful situation, and it is just acne. 
> 
> wynnleaf
> Where in canon are we told "it is just acne?"  ...
>  One might as well speculate that it's an
> extended case of chicken pox, or worse, measles.
> 

bboyminn:

Again, you are illustrating my point for me. Where in
cannon does it say it is NOT acne, or chicken pox, or
measles? Harry gives us his initial reaction, which is
the reaction of a surprised boy under stress. He further
gives us a visual symptomatic description of what he
sees, but he doesn't define it. In other words, he 
doesn't say acne or measles or chicken pox or skin
infection; he simply describes what he sees.

Further, we don't know anything about the spell 
Hermione used, it might have been the 'sneak' chicken
pox spell, or the 'sneak' acne spell. My central point
is we don't know what the spell was or how it works.
Since we don't know, we don't know that an act of
kindness or loyalty on Marietta's part won't cure the
spell. We don't know one way or the other because
there IS NO CANNON to base our discussion on, so
we are left with nothing but speculation.

> 
> > bboyminn:
> > Again, a valid speculative possibility drive by the
> > fact that we have so LITTLE information on the matter.
> > Not a speculation that I'm particularly fond of, but
> > it is presented as a possibility not as a fact.
> 
> wynnleaf
> I have no problem with speculation and I am not 
> criticizing the fact that we all speculate.  I 
> certainly think speculating on hints in
> canon is interesting.  ...
> 

bboyminn:

But you are expecting absolute statements based on 
cannon when there is no cannon. All we have is
'close set purple pustules', nothing about oozing, or
weeping. The pustules could be Dragon pox, they could
be acne, they could be measles, they could be elaborate
ink spots, they could be welts, they could be any 
number of things real and/or imagined (or imaginary).

Since we don't know anything about the nature of the
spell that caused the problem, it is fair game for
speculation. It could be self-limiting and will 
disappear on its own, that is a perfectly valid way
for the situation to be resolved. Without something
in cannon to offer a more likely alternate explanation,
it is, as I said, fair game. 

It could take an act of regret, loyalty, or kindness to
reverse the problem, but without knowing anything about
the spell, we can't say it is or isn't; we can only 
speculate that it /might/ be. 

> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > We have a current on-going and annoying disfiguring
> > hex on a girl who /may/ not recall why it happened. 
> > We know Marietta's memory was modified, but we don't
> > know the details. Did the memory charm make her 
> > forget the event, or merely forget her motivation? 
> 
> wynnleaf
> In The Centaur and The Sneak, Umbridge asks Marietta
> a series of questions to which Marietta's answer is a
> negative shake of her head...
> ...
> Umbridge asked Marietta "how long these meetings have
> been going on" and "have they been happening regularly
> over the last six months?"  
> 
> Answer: negative shake of her head.  
> 
> ...more Q&A...
>
> We learn a bit later that Marietta had her memory 
> "modified" by Shacklebolt.  ... I think it's a fairly
> safe canon-based speculation that Marietta doesn't 
> remember the six months of meetings and in fact 
> believes that there have been *no* such meetings.
> 

bboyminn:

You are doing that same thing you accuse us of doing,
assuming facts not in evidence. I have already pointed
out that Mariette may full well remember the details.
When Shacklebolt modified her memory, he may have 
modified that aspect that effected Motivation rather
than details. With a shift in motivation comes a shift
in loyalty. That shift in loyalty would have produced 
the same answers as your suggestion that Marietta 
remembers nothing at all. 

I'm not saying I'm right, only that my alternate
speculation is based on the same evidence as yours
and would produce the same results as your speculation.

In summary, without knowledge of the nature of the spell
and the magic Hermione used, nor a clear definition of
the results, we simply don't have the information to 
say what did or didn't happen, or what final result 
will or won't be. JKR could resolve this issue in any
number of different ways, all of which would be 
consistent with what we know at this time. Any of the
suggested outcomes has roughly an equal likelihood of
being true. 

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bboyminn