Responses to Marietta

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 169315

> Alla:
> I have no sympathy for Marietta whatsoever. Maybe because the 
example of
> Peter Pettigrew is right there. Yes, it is not the same, even 
though I
> disagree that DA was **just a study group**. I think the  intention 
to
> defend themselves against Voldemort was clearly there.
> 
> I think it is one of those parallels with the twist, where younger 
> generation does things better than the older one.
> 
> Magpie:
> I don't see how this is true when the hex hasn't made anything 
better for
> the good guys in this generation. The trouble, for me, of just 
recasting
> all the characters into the Nazis and the French Resistance, is, 
among
> other things, that it always skips over the stuff that led to 
Marietta
> being a danger in the first place. I suspect the French Resistance 
didn't
> get together by grabbing people from the library and presenting 
themselves
> as a group that was just discussing philosophy and btw, those Nazis 
suck.
> The people admitted into it were committed to the cause and were, I 
think,
> recruited honestly and honorably. Marietta obviously never was and 
what's
> better in that case? Giving her less of a chance to be a weak link, 
or
> getting off on punishing her when she's been one? The intention to 
defend
> themselves against Voldemort isn't there *clearly*. If it were it 
wouldn't
> be a study group talking about OWLS. 

Alla:

I actually do not put it on the level of French resistance, LOL, I 
think you confused me with somebody else. 

What I **do** is definitely put it more than level of the stody group 
of talking about OWLS, I have no book with me now, but will gladly 
give canon where they talk about defending themselves about 
Voldemort. To me it seemed pretty clear. IMO of course.

And what do you mean, Marietta was not recruited honestly and 
honorably?

Did someone put a gun to her head and said **STAY**? I mean, should 
Hermione have done better screening? Sure, but this is a long way for 
me to go to saying that Marietta was not recruited honestly and 
honorably.

I do not see anybody lying to her. IMO of course.


 
Magpie:

> So I think if you're going to put this all on the level of life or 
death
> you have to actually judge Hermione on that level too. 

Alla:

I am putting it on the level I think it is shown in canon - had DA 
been expelled, their futures would have been ruined and yes, I think 
Umbridge would not have stopped from using Cruciatus on them, not 
even on Harry only.

So, life and death, maybe not, although for Harry, I would not be 
surprised given that she sent the Dementors to him. But the level of 
destroying their futures - yes, I absolutely do.

And I judge Hermione on that level - meaning, I thank her for trying 
to protect their futures. As I said - I do not think it was a perfect 
execution, but intentions IMO were spot on.


Magpie:
And I think she
> would have been in trouble for her actions as well as Marietta's 
supervisor
> and the person allegedly in charge of protecting the group. 
Marietta was an
> untrustworthy member. Hermione was a dangerously incompetent 
organizational
> leader. If Marietta's intentions of thinking it was right to side 
with the
> Ministry don't matter, why should it matter that Hermione had 
really good
> intentions in not wanting anyone wto betray the group? 
<SNIP>


Alla:

Probably because I do not think that Hermione's mistakes rise to the 
level of dangerous incompetency, more like not thinkinh things 
through well.



Magpie:
> I don't see Marietta as an innocent here. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

We agree here.


Magpie:
 I just also
> see Hermione as making glaring mistakes that get covered up by 
anger at
> Marietta and her hex, so that Hermione's raised to the level of 
some sort
> of brilliant resistance leader who did the best she could when as a 
reader
> also identifying with the resistance group in question, I don't 
think her
> actions hold up to that kind of scrutiny at all. 
<SNIP>


Alla:

Brilliant? No, but trying hard - in my view yes. They **saw** the 
traitor the minute she spoke, don't they? It would help them to 
neutralise traitor, did it not?

Would be nice that the hex would not let traitor open her mouth, 
sure, I agree. I am just saying that what she did served deterrent 
purpose.

To go back to Peter pettigrew, which as I said, I do not see as 
exactly same, but sort of where I can see Pettigrew starting.

To me, the hex of this variety would have prevented Peter from 
passing information for a year. YES, he may have passed something 
harmful once, but then Order would have neutralised him. They would 
knew identity of the traitor.


Magpie: 
> I think that like everyone else here, I naturally put myself, in my
> imagination, into the DA along with those characters, and my honest
> reaction as an "imaginary member" of the DA is to have far more 
questions
> about Hermione's actions than Marietta's (who barely makes an 
impression
> since she's got no lines and might as well have been wearing a sign 
that
> said she was never on board).
<SNIP>


Alla:

On the personal level, funnily Hermione is my least favorite member 
of the trio, but as imaginary member of the DA I been deeply grateful 
to her for trying to protect me and my peers from expulsion.


JMO,

Alla