Marietta

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 169543

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <rdoliver30 at ...> wrote:
>
> > eggplant107:
> > > If Marietta had not betrayed them Dumbledore would not have been
> not
> > > have been forced to leave Hogwarts, and if Dumbledore was still
> there
> > > Voldemort could never have fooled Harry into going to the Ministry.
> 
> random832:
> > I find both of these assertions just a little hollow. Umbridge would
> > have found another way to force DD out, eventually, and I don't see
> any
> > indication that Harry would have gone to him with this regardless.
> > --
> 
> 
> Would Umbridge have forced DD out regardless?  Being a counterfactual,
> that's impossible to prove one way or another, but I don't think it
> really has anything to do with Marietta's guilt for her role in
> forcing DD out.  Everyone will die someday, but that doesn't make
> murder okay -- even if the death is relatively imminent (which is one
> reason I don't think the "DD was dieing anyway" defense of Snape holds
> any moral water, sorry).
> 
> Now, the second part of the assertion, that Harry probably would not
> have gone to DD, is something I go along with.  It is, of course, DD's
> fault, however, it is not Marietta's.  Having said that, once again I
> don't think that lessens Marietta's guilt for her role in forcing DD
> to leave.
> 
> Lupinlore
>

Montavilla47:

The catalyst that caused Dumbledore leave was the discovery of the parchment list with 
the name "Dumbledore's Army" listed at the top and the names of the students 
underneath.  Until that evidence was shown, Dumbledore (with Shacklebolt's help), was 
able to control the situation.  

So, if we're going to insist that Sirius died because Dumbledore was forced to leave the 
school (and therefore was unavailable for Harry to check with, assuming that he would), 
then the blame has to go with the person who left that list tacked up on the wall for 
anyone to find.

That was Hermione.

Or, you can put the blame on it on the kids who stayed with the D.A. after it was ruled 
illegal.  If they hadn't kept the group going, then there would have been no illegal group 
for Umbridge to find out about.

Or you can put the blasted blame where it *really* belongs--on Umbridge, who forced 
through the decrees that outlawed school groups with the *obvious goal* of preventing 
the D.A. from continuing.  Who is also the person who came to Hogwarts with the 
*obvious goals* of either expelling Harry or forcing Dumbledore out of the school, 
preferably both.

Montavilla47