Slytherin as villains / Ender vs. Harry SPOILERS for Ender's Game

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 179048

> >>lizzyben:
> > Sorry if this was already brought up, but if LV was lying, how 
> > would he know that Draco was still in the castle? 

> >>zgirnius:
> LV does not know Draco is in the castle. He says, and I quote, "He 
> did not come and join me, like the rest of the Slytherins. Perhaps 
> he has decided to befriend Harry Potter?" All this means about     
> Draco's location, is the rather obvious fact that he is not there   
> with Voldemort. Voldemort knows this by the evidence of his own    
> five senses.

Betsy Hp:
And he knows Draco *should* be there because all of the other 
Slytherins (of age or not, that's getting far too detailed for a JKR 
novel, frankly <g>) are with him.  Otherwise, why would Draco *not* 
being there stand out?  And also, he out and out states that the 
other Slytherins are with him.  Which means he's bald-faced lying and 
Harry doesn't pick up on it despite being an unnoticed observer 
within Voldemort's head (and having already picked up much more 
sensitive information than the loyalties of House Slytherin).

> >>lizzyben:
> > If the evacuated Slytherin students didn't go over to his camp,   
> > how would LV know that Draco wasn't among them? 

> >>zgirnius:
> Where does it say Voldemort knows Draco us not among evacuated 
> SLytherins?

Betsy Hp:
Where Voldemort says "join me, like the rest of the Slytherins".  
Voldemort knows where the Slytherins are and that Draco is not among 
them.  Hence his little dig to Lucius. 

> >>zgirnius:
> *If* he does, the students could have been seen by a DE patrolling 
> Hogsmeade.

Betsy Hp:
Heh.  Now I'm picturing a DE being all Romper Room with Voldemort. "I 
saw Davey and Susey and Blaise and Roy..." <bg>  It's this sort of 
scrambling that speaks to the lack of textual support, IMO.  
Slytherin left Hogwarts, walked over to Voldemort's camp, and hey, 
where's pretty young Draco who I've had such personal dealings with?  
Better ask dear old dad.

> >>zgirnius:
> Or, it could be that, even though we saw neither hide nor 
> hair of such a person, *a* Slytherin joined Voldemort and reported 
> it (this could also happen by the alternative of *a* Slytherin     
> student being captured during the evacuation attempt, and          
> exercising his/her cunning by feigning relief s/he has reached     
> the 'right side').

Betsy Hp:
Even though we saw neither hair nor hide? <rbg>  I'd think if were 
just one, that one would be named.  That no names are used speaks 
more strongly for it being a group.

> >>zgirnius:
> <snip>
> And, as has been pointed out, LV's statement to Lucius, because it 
> includes the phrase 'like the rest of the Slytherins', is false. 
> Crabbe never left the castle.

Betsy Hp:
Honestly, I think you're straining at details here.  We know Crabbe 
and Goyle (and Draco as well) were doing something *for* Voldemort.  
So they're not an example of a Slytherin not serving.  But we also 
know that Draco is one student Voldemort knows pretty darn well.  If 
a herd of Slyhterins trooped over to his side, Voldemort would notice 
Draco's absence far more than he'd notice Crabbe or Goyle's.

And finally, when is this statement of Voldemort's ever pointed to as 
a lie by the text?  Harry doesn't think to himself, "But Voldemort's 
lying because Crabbe and Goyle weren't there either!"  And he never 
says, "But Voldemort's lying, I haven't seen one Slytherin student 
fighting!"  Which, IMO, means that Voldemort wasn't lying, JKR never 
meant for us to parse his statement to such depth, and as far as 
she's concerned, Slytherin students of a certain age were fighting 
alongside Voldemort.

> >>Carol:
> <snip>
> I can't prove a negative, that "the Slytherin students didn't fight
> for Voldemort." All I can say is, there's no evidence, not one iota,
> to show that they did.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yes there is, Carol.  Voldemort's statement that the Slytherins 
*joined* with him.  So there's evidence right there that they *did* 
join with Voldemort and no evidence to suggest otherwise.  JKR 
doesn't have to state something twice.  Especially something that I 
think to her mind should be a bit of a no-brainer.  Slytherins are 
the bad house ergo they joined with Voldemort as soon as they got the 
chance.  This is like asking for a specifc role call of all Orcs 
present on the side of evil at a certain battle in the LotRs.  Of 
*course* they fought on the wrong side, they're *Orcs*.

If JKR was cleverly laying clues (that she never revealed) that all 
of the stuff about Slytherin was a lie, she'd have included a role 
call with the battle.  She doesn't.  Death Eaters are wearing masks 
so they aren't all identifiable.  We have no idea who killed Colin 
Creevy.  So the lack of a specific name (beyond Draco, Crabbe and 
Goyle) is proof of nothing, IMO, and Voldemort's statement stands 
unchallenged.

Betsy Hp