JKR, the female and facism (wasRe: WAS Slytherin as villains...

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 179114

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Kemper wrote:
> > 
> > > > I see Lily more as Mother Mary in this scene.  It is what I
> imagine she would say to her son as he carried his cross.  (I'm not
> trying to equate a Harry is Jesus thing)  Lily and Mary don't send
> their son off to die, their sons have chosen this.
> >  
> > Katie S.:
> > > I thought the Harry as a literary parallel to Jesus was painfully
> obvious, dying selflessly to save the world, the love of the world
> bringing him back to life, his father  (Dumbledore) sacrificing him to
> save the world, etc.
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > Speaking personally as a Christian, I have always held that Harry is
> not a Christ figure. Although he is not specifically written as a
> believer, like a practising Christian can aim at being Christ-like
> which isn't the same thing.
> > 
> > Again, canon is quite explicit in that Harry does not die.
> >
> Carol responds:
> But a Christ figure is not Christ, nor does he have to die. He (or
> she) is a flawed human being who nevertheless shares traits in common
> with Christ, in this case, the willingness to sacrifice himself to
> save others. That he does not actually die (though he could have
> chosen to remain where he was and "go on" to the afterlife) is
> immaterial. 

Geoff:
I think the problem here is that we are using labels differently for 
what we are describing.

To me, a Christ "figure" is someone who is directly representing 
Christ in a story situation or similar scenario. No human can be, 
because, as you say, we are flawed beings whereas Jesus is God 
in human form so Harry, for example, in my terminology, cannot 
be a Christ figure.

As an aside, we can have a Christ figure in a story  as in the Narnia 
books where Aslan is immortal and is the "son of the great Emperor
-beyond-the-sea" and hence has tohe power to die to save someone.

Harry and all the others can be Christ "like" because that is what 
Christians are enjoined to be... "Let this mind be in you which was 
in Christ Jesus" as Paul puts it in the letter to the Phillipians. And, 
although we know nothing about the faith (or lack of it) which Harry, 
Ron and the others hold, we see that they do lean in the direction of 
doing good, like all of us although we often fail to achieve our goals 
in that direction.

Referring back to your earlier comment that "he does not actually 
die... is immaterial" seems to miss the point that it was a main plank 
in Katie S.'s post, hence my answering it.