Lucius, Lucius, Lucius

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 179182

> Mike:
> The only thing that makes sense to me was if Voldemort had started 
> his reign by intimidating or eliminating any dark wizards that 
> didn't join him. If Lucius was convinced that any extra-
Voldemortian 
> activity would get him killed while LV was around, and if he knew 
he 
> couldn't or wouldn't stop himself from getting involved, then I 
> understand his decision to join Voldemort.

a_svirn:
There is that. On the other hand he could easily get killed while 
serving Voldemort. The Aurors under Crouch cursed to kill. I suppose 
the mortality rate among the death eaters was about as high as it was 
among the phoenixes. At least without Voldemort he could look forward 
for a greater reward, than leaking his master boots and torturing an 
occasional Muggle. 
> 
> 
> > a_svirn:
> <snip>
> > Granted, there would still be Voldemort to deal with, but
> > without powerful wizards to back him he would be less 
> > formidable. According to this scenario Lucius could afford 
> > to negotiate with Voldemort instead of grovelling 
> > at his feet. And he would be a player instead of a pawn.  
> 
> Mike:
> Except Voldemort was there with his power base before Lucius was 
out 
> of school. It would have been Lucius that was doing the catching 
up. 
> (Unless you mean to do it between the wars. Then I agree, a much 
more 
> viable option. Alas, Lucius didn't see it that way.) Besides, I 
> didn't get the impression that Voldemort did a lot of "negotiating".

a_svirn:
Of course he didn't – why should he? He got a lot of influential 
families to back him. If they hadn't recognised him as their Lord and 
Master he would have had to be more flexible. But they did, and he 
didn't have to. That's what I find incomprehensible. 

I know we are supposed to see the similarities with Hitler. I see 
them of course – they are emphasised in canon. But the differences 
are still more pronounced. Hitler came to power legitimately and had 
the overwhelming popular support. The elite made an obvious 
opportunistic choice in backing him – it was either that, or loosing 
their position altogether (not to mention risking revolutions and 
nationalisations). Voldemort, on the other hand, was anything but 
popular. He ran a sort of exclusive and secret club, mostly for those 
listed in the wizarding Debrett's. And for the privilege to become a 
member of this exalted society they had to renounce their freedom and 
dignity. Where is the point? It is as though they caught this 
predilection to slavery from their elves (makes one wonder about 
elves' nature all over again). 

> Mike:
> This is certainly a more dignified plan, more befitting of one such 
> as Lucius. I would have loved for Lucius to have tried and failed a 
> Ministry takeover during GoF. Then he somehow convinces Fudge (or 
> Umbridge who convinces Fudge) that Dumbledore was behind the failed 
> attempt. Probably too much to cram into that book, what with all 
the 
> Hermione, Ron, Krum love triangle to explore - blech!
> 
> Mike, wondering if the Lucius takeover was the "getting off track" 
> thing that JKR admitted happened in GoF that required a major 
> overhaul in the middle of writing the book?
>

a_svirn:
Yes, I also wondered. I mean there is something odd about that 
busyness at the World Cup. Harry asked (for once) a very pertinent 
question – What was the point? Because having fun is all very well, 
but the choice of the time and place indicates that the World Cup 
debacle was clearly a demonstration. But the demonstration of what? 
And to whom? To Voldemort (they all had felt their marks by the time) 
that they are still of the same mind? To the Ministry – a sort of an 
alarm bell message: "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" is at large again, do 
something for Merlin's sake? Maybe both? In any of the above he 
certainly failed: the Ministry didn't take the hint, and Voldemort 
remained unimpressed. But perhaps he had something more subtle in 
mind (though that too must have failed).