Some Dumbledore ranting/ some Sirius WAS: Re: Harry as godfather

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 179200

> zgirnius:
> This is why I employed the adjective 'legal'. James and Lily, who 
did 
> not manage to even have wands handy when Voldemort came calling, 
> strike me as the sorts of characters who may not have bothered to 
put 
> their wishes regarding the custody of their son in the event of 
theor 
> deaths in writing. I don't doubt the sincerity Sirius's belief that 
> James and Lily would have wanted him to get custody of Harry, but 
> even Sirius does not claim, that I can recall, that this wish was 
> definitely formalized in whatever manner is usual in the 
Potterverse. 
> I doubt they had written a will either, but Harry would get 
> everything as a matter of course. They were young, they thought 
they 
> were invincible, and then they were dead.


Alla:

And legal does not necessarily means **in writing**. I mean, it is 
always better to have it in writing obviously for the court to have a 
stronger evidence. But truly, testimony could suffice if convincing, 
depending on circumstances, and if Lily and James **communicated** 
their wishes to other people, then especially for the purposes of the 
story I consider it to be perfectly legal.

I have no doubt believing that they may not have a written will,as 
you said, young and invicible, but at the same time, they indeed put 
thought into designating Sirius' as guardian, so I can just as easily 
believe that they put it into will ( since they already spent SOME 
time thinking of who will be Harry's guardian, why not put it in 
writing too). 



> > Alla:
> > I sympathise with his decision to go after Peter, but I 
definitely 
> > think he should have not hesitated to use any force on Hagrid, 
take 
> > Harry and leave with him.
> 
> zgirnius:
> Given Hagrid's immunities, and Harry's lack thereof, this may well 
> take the prize as Sirius's most sensible decision ever. <g>

Alla:

As I said, we differ. I love that Sirius wanting to get revenge as he 
did, still fought for Harry, but I would love for him to take Harry 
away from Dumbledore.

I know, we would not have a story and sure, Hagrid may have 
overpowered him, but if he did knock him out, then I would have no 
problems with him whatsoever. He tried his hardest then in my mind.


 
> > Alla:
> > Could anybody reasonably assume that 
> > Dumbledore would just believe that one of the order members 
guilty 
> > without talking to this order member **once**?
> 
> zgirnius:
> Umm, yes. I would be an example. At least, I flatter myself that I 
am 
> a reasonable person. I would expect Dumbledore to act, initially, 
as 
> though Sirius was guilty as sin. There would be time enough to 
> apologize after the fact, if he acted wrongly, once Harry was safe.

Alla:

Except he did not apologise after the fact and did not check his 
facts, didn't he?

No, condemn first apologise later is not the style I respect.

Zgirnius: 
> Failure to act, could mean the death of Harry despite his 
miraculous 
> survival of Voldemort's attack. Hagrid and Petunia are both 
> trustworthy in the sense that neither had any chance of being 
> the 'spy close to the Potters' and the traitor. Sirius became 
Suspect 
> Number One for that role, thanks to his (supposed) SKing. Protect 
> Harry first, figure out what happened second.

Alla:

Where is the part where he figures out what happened? 
I remember how disagreeable I found the argument that Sirius after 
Azkaban should have come to Dumbledore. I mean, here is the man under 
whose command he was serving as part of the very few trusted soldiers 
and who when push comes to shove did not even come to check the facts 
himself. He sent Hagrid. Why Sirius would have think that Dumbledore 
would help him in any way after Azkaban, beats me.

 
> zgirnius:
> Dumbledore faced exigent circumstances. He needed Harry out of the 
> hands of a potential traitor before that traitor could finish the 
job 
> Voldemort had botched. Checking the facts could wait for later. 
> Placing Harry with the Dursleys was not an irrevocable decision, 
> though I think he would have fought hard to keep Harry there.

Alla:

Yes, checking the facts part. And in the meanwhile checking how Harry 
is doing part would also be nice.

It is funny, really. Altogether I am not as down on Dumbledore as 
some people are after DH. Mostly because I buy his remorse, but OMG 
when I think about it I find him playing god to Sirius in Harry's 
lives to be so very disgusting.

I mean, before DH I already hated those actions of his, but 
alltogether I still thought he was a good man trying to do his best.

I mean, I thought those were manipulative actions, but Nooooo, I 
thought those were indeed such bad circumstances. Now I am doubly 
convinced that it was not such bad circumstances, it was needs of the 
plot and Dumbledore thinking He knows best IMO.

Could you ( or anybody) come up with ONE convincing reason for 
example why Dumbledore did not go himself to Godric Hollow? Besides 
the needs of the plot.

  
> > Alla:
> > I would have laughed if somebody told me that before DH, but now 
I 
> > think that he may have, Dumbledore I mean. Speculation obviously.
> 
> zgirnius:
> I could not disagree more, but it is also irrelevant to my 
argument. 
> Without knowing about the prophecy, blood protection, etc., Sirius 
> was not basing his decision on these supposed facts about 
Dumbledore.


Alla:

Well, sure, it is irrelevant except that I place enough blame for 
that night on Dumbledore as well.

And yes, I cannot exclude that anymore. As I said before I remember 
laughing at the theories that Dumbledore kept Sirius in Azkaban and I 
still do, but I am absolutely not hesitant to believe that Dumbledore 
would have done anything to keep any person that would harm his plans.

Funnily what convinced me was Dumbledore telling Snape to aim at 
person to be convincing in DH.

That for me stood for as metaphor that Dumbledore would not hesitate 
to hurt any of his comrades if it is for the greater good.

And oh dear, Snape did differently. Snape of all people.

And yes, I know that Harry has a greater good idea in his mind too, 
but I think he indeed realised that he may turn into Dumbledore and 
decided not to, when he told people about Diadem.

I am not calling Dumbledore evil, I am sure he wanted the best for WW 
world in general. I even believe that he loved Harry, to his surprise.

But do I believe that he considered most people as pawns in his plans 
and inferior to him? Oh yes.

I think when he admits that he always knew that Harry is the better 
man it is truly a first one for him.

JMO,

Alla