Some Dumbledore ranting/ some Sirius WAS: Re: Harry as godfather

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 179203

Alla:
> 
> And legal does not necessarily means **in writing**. I mean, it is 
> always better to have it in writing obviously for the court to have a 
> stronger evidence. But truly, testimony could suffice if convincing, 
> depending on circumstances, and if Lily and James **communicated** 
> their wishes to other people, then especially for the purposes of the 
> story I consider it to be perfectly legal.
> 
> I have no doubt believing that they may not have a written will,as 
> you said, young and invicible, but at the same time, they indeed put 
> thought into designating Sirius' as guardian, so I can just as easily 
> believe that they put it into will ( since they already spent SOME 
> time thinking of who will be Harry's guardian, why not put it in 
> writing too). 
> 
Carol responds:
If appointing Sirius Black as Harry's godfather was the simple matter
that naming Harry as Teddy Lupin's godfather is, with no ceremony and
no certificates involved, I don't see how it could have any legal
significance at all. As for being named Harry's "guardian," we have
only one reference to that, from Black himself. It could be a slip on
JKR's part (she's been known to do that). At any rate, in RL, there's
no connection between being selected as a godparent, which is entirely
a religious matter and essentially an honorary position (a really good
godparent might be a role model and spiritual guide, as well as giving
the child presents on birthdays or Christmas), whereas being a
guardian is a legal and moral responsibility, in loco parentis. And in
the absence of a will stating that the Potters wanted sirius black as
their child's guardian, I doubt that even the MoM would take the child
away from his nearest relatives (especially if DD had explained the
protections he was putting on the Dursley home, and Fudge seems to
know about them in PoA.) Moreover, once Sirius Black was "known" to be
the Secret Keeper who betrayed the Potters to their deaths, no one was
going to support his claim to Harry even if it were in the Potters'
will, any more than the U.S. courts would grant custody of a child to
the parents' chosen guardian if that person had a criminal record and
might be a danger to the child.

When Hagrid tells DD that he got the motorcycle from "young sirius
Black," DD asks: "No trouble, was there?" He hasn't told Hagrid about
Black's supposedly being SK, but he knows it himself, and took
measures to prevent Harry's being turned over to anyone by telling
Hagrid that Harry was to go to the Dursleys no matter what. I don't
think that Black knew anything about Petunia beyond her bad taste in
vases (mentioned in the letter in DH). He certainly could not have
known how differently the Dursleys would treat Harry and his cousin
Dudley. He may have realized that DD knew best, or he may simply have
taken out his frustration by going after Peter Pettigrew (an action he
must have known would land him in Azkaban--"I won't be needing it [the
motorcycle] anymore"). Rather than fighting Hagrid for his own right
to take the child, maybe he actually considered that Harry might be
better off in a Muggle household, away from renegade DEs, rather than
with him, a single wizard on the run from both DEs and the MoM. (Of
course, he could have gone to DD and explained the situation or
pleaded his case, but, being Sirius Black, he seems not to have
thought of that.) At any rate, I agree with zgirnius that leaving
Harry with Hagrid was sensible, much more sensible and much less
selfish than taking Harry with him into danger. Going after Peter
Pettigrew, however, was just plain reckless. I suppose in his remorse
and despair, his only comfort was revenge. "I'll go down, but I'll
take Wormtail with me."
> 
> > > Alla:
> > > I sympathise with his decision to go after Peter, but I 
definitely think he should have not hesitated to use any force on
Hagrid, take Harry and leave with him. <snip>

Carol:
Used force on Hagrid, who was trying to act in Harry's best interests?
that would be assault, and, if he took Harry, kidnapping. Just what a
wizard on the run needs to do, add to the list of crimes he's being
sought for. (Of course, he did just that by going after Peter
Pettigrew, whom I believe he intended to kill, but at least he wasn't
attacking a well-intentioned innocent person who wasn't supposed to
use magic. Much better to give Hagrid, who probably couldn't Apparate,
a form of transportation. (How either of them was supposed to hold
onto Harry while flying is anyone's guess. Stick him in the sidecar?
And we still don't know how Hagrid got to GH in the first place. Oh,
dear. Plotholes.) I don't like sirius very much, but I think in this
instance, he was acting in Harry's best interest. I don't see how he
could possibly have kept Harry safe being on the run himself. His big
disguise would be useless if he were carrying a baby. A Grimlike dog
carrying a fifteen-month-old toddler in its mouth or on its back would
have been rather conspicuous, as would the flying motorcycle once the
WW was warned about it.

> Alla:
> 
> Except he did not apologise after the fact and did not check his 
> facts, didn't he? <snip>
 
> Where is the part where he figures out what happened? 

Carol:
In PoA, offpage, when DD goes to talk to Sirius Black, who is locked
in Flitwick's office. Soon after that, DD reminds Hermione of the
time-turner, which they can use to save "more than one innocent life":
that is, Black's and Buckbeak's. He is, at that time, as convinced of
Black's innocence as the children are, and he makes sure that Black is
not turned over to the Dementors.

Alla:

> I remember how disagreeable I found the argument that Sirius after
Azkaban should have come to Dumbledore. I mean, here is the man under
whose command he was serving as part of the very few trusted soldiers
and who when push comes to shove did not even come to check the facts
himself. He sent Hagrid. Why Sirius would have think that Dumbledore
would help him in any way after Azkaban, beats me.
 
Carol responds:
At the point we're talking about, DD has every reason to suspect
Black, whom he believes to be the Secret Keeper (because James has
said he wants SB for that job), the betrayer of the Potters and the
spy who gave Voldemort information on the Order members for a year. It
would be highly irresponsible of DD to give Harry into that man's
hands, especially when he had devised an extension of Lily's blood
protection that would work only with Lily's sister, Petunia. As For
Black, he had no reason to distrust DD, whom he must have known was
acting in Harry's best interests. All he needed to do was to confess
his blunder in suggesting that the Potters make Pettigrew Secret
Keeper instead of himself. If DD had gone after Pettigrew, knowing
that he was a rat animagus, I don't think we'd have had twelve dead
Muggles and a "rat" escaping into the sewers.

And, as for Black thinking that DD would help him in any way after
Azkaban, if it weren't for DD's Time Turner idea, Black would have
been soul-sucked. He had every reason to be grateful to DD, not only
for saving him but for believing his story.

Alla:
> I am not calling Dumbledore evil, I am sure he wanted the best for
WW world in general. I even believe that he loved Harry, to his surprise.
> 
> But do I believe that he considered most people as pawns in his
plans and inferior to him? Oh yes.
> 
> I think when he admits that he always knew that Harry is the better
 man it is truly a first one for him.

Carol:
Here we agree. I do think, however, that DD's behavior in keeping
Harry out of Black's custody was not only understandable but necessary
to keep Harry safe. It would have been nice if he had gone to Azkaban
to hear the facts and try to get a fair trial for Black as he tried to
do for Hokey and Morfin (both of whom died before he could exonerate
them), but he thought that he had all the facts in the case (confirmed
by the eyewitness testimony that Black had murdered twelve Muggles and
Peter Pettigrew, whom DD didn't know to be a rat Animagus). Lupin,
after all, thought the same thing--and he knew about Pettigrew's
Animagus form.

Carol, not at all happy that DD turned out to be such a manipulator
but believing that he was right to keep Harry away from Black and
place him with the Dursleys, where he might be unloved but would
survive to attend Hogwarts