Family and Other Loyalty

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 177804



Winterfell: Actually, Marietta is given what amounts to acne scars in  
the long run not for following the rules per se, but for betraying 
her  schoolmates.  I agree that it's a good thing that she has to hide 
her  face from shame.  She's earned that shame, but not primarily for 
not  following rules, but for being a traitor.  Betraying her fellow  
students had serious consequences that she should have considered  
before turning them in to Umbridge.
 
Julie:
I agree that Marietta received the scars for betraying her  schoolmates. 
Also as far as the book--and JKR--are concerned, she earned her shame
and her just punishment. JKR said as much when asked about the  pustules
(scars) in an interview, saying that she loathed a traitor, thus  indicating 
that 
Marietta deserved no sympathy or "second chances" and that  Hermione's
action was neither wrong nor even extreme for the actual crime. 
 
That's fair enough BTW. That is how JKR feels about it. Accepted. It is  just
not how I feel about it, nor many other readers. Does it affect my  enjoyment
of the books? Minimally. I can envision the books having playing out  with 
both
Harry and Hermione being more sympathetic and forgiving than they  turned
out to be. But I also initially envisioned Dumbledore that way! 
 
Point is, there is nothing *wrong* with JKR writing her story this way; it  
is well
within her rights as the storyteller. But there is also nothing wrong with  
some
readers feeling uncomfortable with both Hermione and Harry's  attitudes, or
feeling that a 16 year old girl who was being pulled by opposing loyalties  
does
deserve forgiveness and a true second chance. And there, in our  individual
assessments of whether the punishment fit the "crime" is where we will 
continue to disagree. 


>snip:
> lizzyben goes on to write:
> 
> I  think there's a large element of "revenge fantasy" to the novels,
> and  that JKR has fun dishing out this revenge w/o always considering
> the  consequences & implications of it.


Winterfell: While there are  issues of revenge in the Harry Potter 
novels, there is absolutely no proof  that JKR has "fun" dishing out 
this revenge w/o always considering the  implications of such 
revenge.  JKR has plot threads to further and I  believe she fully 
knew the consequences & implications of what she  wrote w/ regard to 
revenge.  What motivated JKR to write what she did  is known only by 
her unless she revealed her motivations in interviews. I  just want to 
know what proof is there that JKR is having irresponsible fun  when 
she is writing about revenge.

Winterfell who thinks that JKR  knows best why she writes what she 
does and not us readers.   


Julie:
No doubt JKR does know best why she writes. But she has also TOLD us
several times why she wrote the Harry Potter novels (for "herself" not to  fit
any preconceived notions of fantasy, or children's literature, or anything  
else.)
Furthermore, she has pointed out her inspiration behind certain characters  
and
events. Snape is based on a much-loathed professor who taught her and  who
refused her mother a job position. Lockhart is based on an unnamed real  man
she knew and disliked. Certain themes in the books were inspired by the  death
of her mother.
 
JKR, like all writers, puts part of herself and her experiences into her  
stories.
What's more, she's been quite up front about it. Revenge was her  motivation
with the characters of Snape and Lockhart, at least in part. So it is not  
exactly
a crazy leap to assume a similar motive is at play with Marietta's story,  
among
others. I previously suggested that JKR knew a "Marietta" at some point in  
her
life, maybe in school. I knew a Marauder or two myself (being on the Snape  
side
of them, though hardly to such a degree as Snape). It's a natural human  
trait to
want revenge against people who've wronged you, *especially* if it happened  
when
you were a teenager. Most of us don't actually put our desire for revenge  
into
action of course, and wouldn't really want to. Unless we could do it in a  
manner
that gives us the cathartic satisfaction of getting back at that  person 
without 
having stooped to their level by actually harming said person. Such as  
writing it
into a novel, for instance ;-)
 
It also coud be JKR didn't know a Marietta, and didn't write her based  on a 
school
mate who betrayed JKR's trust or someone else's. But it is certainly a  fair 
enough
theory, based on other characters in the books who represent aspects of  real 
people from JKR's life. As is theorizing where revenge fantasies may fit  
into the
books (since Lockhart and Snape admittedly embody revenge fantasies  against
real people to some degree).
 
Julie 
 
 
 
 
 



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