Family and Other Loyalty

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 177808

>Winterfell: While there are issues of revenge in the Harry Potter
novels, there is absolutely no proof that JKR has "fun" dishing out
this revenge w/o always considering the implications of such
revenge. JKR has plot threads to further and I believe she fully
knew the consequences & implications of what she wrote w/ regard to
revenge. What motivated JKR to write what she did is known only by
her unless she revealed her motivations in interviews. I just want to
know what proof is there that JKR is having irresponsible fun when
she is writing about revenge.

Winterfell who thinks that JKR knows best why she writes what she
does and not us readers.

lizzyben:

She's said that she uses writing to exact revenge at times, so that's
not really in dispute. As to whether it's irresponsible... it's her
world, right? She has a right to present her own values as much as any
writer does, and readers have a right to agree or disagree w/those
actions. 

I'm not saying that Marietta is based on a real person, but that she
embodies a type of person JKR really doesn't like (traitors), and so
receives just punishment in JKR's eyes. Others might disagree. And
people can have totally different opinions about what motivates JKR to
write about anything - only she knows for sure! Even interviews are
incomplete; but the int. seem to suggest to me that she does have fun
sometimes exacting justice/revenge on the various bad characters. So I
might be totally wrong, but I'm not making this up out of nothing.

"That child is unlikely to be the only person who would like to ask
Joanne Rowling about the genesis of that character, a journalist who
glories in the byline Rita Skeeter. Those people would have one
question: what prompted Rowling to devise arguably her most obnoxious
caricature so far? It seems that the creator of Harry Potter was
taking revenge."
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/0900-independent-carrell.html

"The great thing about becoming a writer is you can get revenge on
everyone." 

For revenge, Harry has magically tortured his cousin Dudley. 'I like
torturing them,' said Rowling. 
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/1100-cinescape-garcia2.htm

"A: Are we going to see more of her (Umbridge)? [Jo nods.] You say
that with an evil nod.
JKR: Yeah, it's too much fun to torture her not to have another little
bit more before I finish."

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-2.htm

> Alla: 
> But that's not the argument,no? It seems that Lizzyben's argument is 
> that JKR wrote the novel primarily **because** she wanted to 
> exercise revenge on real people and yeah, I find this having no 
> support, unless we claim to read JKR's mind or she says so in 
> interviews.

lizzyben:

That's not my argument; though I wasn't really making any argument at
all beyond one sentence about Marietta's punishment. JKR wrote the
novels for many different reasons; primarily, I would imagine, to tell
a good story. I said that there's an *element* of revenge fantasy to
the novels, along with many other elements. This revenge is not always
or even mostly exacted against characters based on real people, but on
'bad guy' characters in general. Whether readers view these
punishments as justice or revenge, deserved or harsh, fair or unfair,
is totally a matter of individual interpretation.

While reading OOTP, all I remember thinking about the jinx is "Go
Hermione", so it's not like I'm knocking all these revenges/karmic
justices. I didn't even really realize how many examples there were
until people brought them up. 


> Alla:
> I say she wanted to write **nasty** characters - Snape and Lockhart 
> and she wrote them. I do **not** know that she wrote them 
> **because** she wanted to exercise revenge over real people.

lizzyben:

Snape & Lockhart are based on real people, and are the only ones known
to be from real life (AFAIK). And just because they're based on real
people doesn't mean that they were only introduced for revenge
purposes, cause that's not what I believe. They're just models for the
 "bad guys". JKR is just really, really good as creating these nasty
villains; and those villains usually do get their comeuppance in the end.

Pippin:

I can see where it might be tempting to exaggerate Snape's
victimhood. Then we readers could construct a rescue
scenario of our own, where JKR is the bullying tyrant who
abuses her characters and we who point this out can
cast ourselves in her place as champion of the oppressed.

lizzyben:

LOL, isn't that what hurt/comfort is all about? Snape ended up being
the ultimate embodiment of that particular dynamic - author as
persecutor, Lupin/Sirius/Snape as victimized hero, reader as noble
rescuer! In so doing, readers are roped into the drama triangle as
well - very clever, JKR.  


lizzyben