Likeable Slughorn (was: Villain!Dumbledore )

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 177830

> Prep0strus:
> I find Slughorn so gross. Maybe it's because I was expecting him to 
> be a likable Slytherin.  He picks out not just those who are 
> talent, but have contacts.  And he gives them special treatment, 
> and they get to go to special parties and have special food and 
> kids who don't make the grade are very pointedly rejected.  This is 
> how he treats children.  He's a selfish, pathetic, gross figure, 
> and I think the story treats him with disdain.

Mike:
Irene and I may be in the minority, but I too liked Slughorn. I 
suppose it was that first impression that sealed the deal for me. All 
that amazing magic he did preparing the house for DD's and Harry's 
arrival. Then ole Sluggy said about Umbridge "Idiotic Woman. Never 
liked her.", I was sold.

Needless to say, I disagreed with Harry's initial impression of 
Sluggy. I don't think he was a pureblood fanatic at all. He just had 
old ideas about magic and magical abilities which were born out, imo, 
by him choosing a 50+ year old text for potions class. He liked Lily 
Evans and even wanted her for his House. I think he's an example of 
the type of Slytherin we'd get if Tom Riddle didn't hijack the House.

That Riddle was able to hijack Slytherin out from under Sluggy, is 
his fault. But I actually blame Dumbledore more for that than I do 
Sluggy. Dumbledore was privledged to catch Riddle in an unguarded 
situation, so he knew of Tom's potential for cruelty. Dumbledore was 
also aware of Riddle's ability to "charm" others, as well as being 
aware that Riddle didn't try the same with him. I think that makes 
Dumbledore irresponsible for not at least alerting Riddle's HOH about 
his propensity for evil so Sluggy could have been put on his guard.

As to Sluggy's special treatment of the talented, Irene already 
addressed that quite well. I'll just add that Harry sure seemed to 
change his opinion of Sluggy once Sluggy began praising Harry's 
(unearned) potions brilliance. I don't think Harry began to "like" 
Slughorn, but he no longer found him exactly disagreeable. And 
uninvited is not the same as rejected. Sluggy has just as much right 
as anyone else to associate with whom he pleases on his own time. Not 
everyone gets to be on the Quidditch team either.



> Prep0strus:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Snape, while fighting for good, is exceedingly unpleasant.  He's
> bitter and lonely and treats children terribly.  JKR even manages to
> make his physical appearance unpleasant.  He is without question one
> of the 'good' guys. But he is not likable or pleasant in any way.

Mike:
I have been reading this thread and your opinions about Slytherin for 
a while. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you, like me, have no 
problem with JKR portraying Slytherin as the "bad guy" house. That 
is, JKR chose to create a house from which eminates almost all the of 
the abominations in the WW, and in a work of fiction that's just 
fine. Notwithstanding fandom's desire for House unity, Slytherin 
redemption, or to find that "one good Slytherin", JKR never intended 
to ameliorate what she presented as the initial impression of the 
predominant Slytherinesque character, imo.

And again, this doesn't bother me when reading a work of fiction. She 
did include ambiguities in some of the Slytherin characters, and even 
made some of the Slytherins ultimately good. But she never wavered in 
presenting *Slytherin House* as the place that needed a good power 
washing. She could have corrected that impression and/or given 
Slytherin that power wash but she did neither. Failed oppurtunity, 
poor or lazy writing? Perhaps. I prefer to believe that JKR painted 
Slytherin as "bad" from the get go and didn't want anything to dilute 
that message.



> > Celoneth:
> > I'm not looking for the good Slytherin, <snip>
> > Slytherin isn't a dumping ground for all that's bad.
> 
> Prep0strus:
> I do.  I feel that between the hat and the characters, that 
> Slytherin has been a dumping ground for all that's bad.

Mike:
A slight disagreement here. I think it was Slytherin House's 
predominant personality cult that was bad, not that all the people 
sorted into Slytherin were bad. But of course, once sorted in, even a 
good character bombarded by that predominant opinion (and with their 
presumed predisposition for that kind of thinking) would probably 
change their tune. I think this may have been the case for Snape. I 
don't think he used the term "Mudblood" before starting school. And 
though he was probably aware of the WW prejudice, or just 
Slytherin's, against Muggleborns, I'm not convinced he agreed with 
that position prior to entering Slytherin House.

Mike, an unrepentant Sluggy fan ;)