Likeable Slughorn (was: Villain!Dumbledore )

sistermagpie sistermagpie at earthlink.net
Mon Oct 8 17:50:38 UTC 2007


No: HPFGUIDX 177833

> Mike:
> Irene and I may be in the minority, but I too liked Slughorn. I 
> suppose it was that first impression that sealed the deal for me. 
All 
> that amazing magic he did preparing the house for DD's and Harry's 
> arrival. Then ole Sluggy said about Umbridge "Idiotic Woman. Never 
> liked her.", I was sold.
> 
> Needless to say, I disagreed with Harry's initial impression of 
> Sluggy. I don't think he was a pureblood fanatic at all. He just 
had 
> old ideas about magic and magical abilities which were born out, 
imo, 
> by him choosing a 50+ year old text for potions class. He liked 
Lily 
> Evans and even wanted her for his House. I think he's an example 
of 
> the type of Slytherin we'd get if Tom Riddle didn't hijack the 
House.
> 
> That Riddle was able to hijack Slytherin out from under Sluggy, is 
> his fault. But I actually blame Dumbledore more for that than I do 
> Sluggy. Dumbledore was privledged to catch Riddle in an unguarded 
> situation, so he knew of Tom's potential for cruelty.

Magpie:
I've said this before, but I just don't get it. Whether or not he's 
a fanatic, how are his "old ideas" any less bigoted? I can't believe 
anybody, if faced with a guy saying, "Ah yes, your mother was black. 
Could have knocked me over with a feather, she was so bright! Funny 
how that happens sometimes!" Or: "Your mother was very good at math--
can you imagine? A girl good at math!" 

Who cares if it's "old-fashioned?" Not that I'm conceding that it is-
-I'm not. He's still picking out kids for different treatment based 
on their bloodline. Everybody likes to push "talent" as Slughorn's 
method of choosing people, but I think that's a mischaracterization. 
Slughorn is never ever portrayed as some guy strictly hunting out 
talent. If a non-entity or a Muggle-born shows exceptional talent to 
the point where it's star quality in his eyes he'll see them as 
somebody who can give him something, but they don't start off equal 
to the boy from a good Pure-blood family. Good family connections or 
social connections, if not ruined by some other consideration, are 
just as important as talent. By the same token, talent ruined by 
some other drawback will keep you out. In fact, the very idea of 
looking for the most talented is explicitly disassociated from the 
Slug Club when McClaggen nudge nudges Harry about putting him on the 
Quidditch team because they're both in the Club--which is the way 
the club is supposed to work. That's the way Old Boy's Clubs work in 
the real world, even after they started to admit girls into them.

I think the whole idea of Slughorn's (and sometimes Phineas') 
bigotry being "old-fashioned" comes from the sketchy world-building. 
Who says it's old-fashioned in canon? Nobody that we see. I think we 
get that impression by bringing our own world into it. Why does his 
Slug Club from the past only have Pureblood males in it? Because 
it's like the 50s in our world, when they would have been privilged 
and male. Yet in the WW they're not supposed to have had that sort 
of history. I think JKR's just drawing on the images we have from 
the past there. Same with Muggle-borns. There's nothing in canon to 
suggest views on Muggle-borns follow the same evolution as views on 
other races in our world, but that seems to me to be the assumption 
in suggesting that Slughorn's just too old to not think this way, 
and therefore his views are harmless. (Also sometimes to suggest 
that the word "Mudblood" isn't offensive when Phineas says it.)

Nor is Slughorn a particularly good teacher that I can see. Oh, 
there are plenty at Hogwarts that are at his level--the school 
doesn't have the greatest record. He's not particularly bad either 
in some areas. But what we see isn't particularly impressive. He has 
kids make potions from a book, they all struggle with it (including 
Hermione) and then he praises Harry alone, without much in the way 
of instructions for others--in fact he usually makes a point of 
chalking up Harry's talent to his bloodline. I wouldn't be surprised 
if plenty of serious students preferred Snape over this guy. 
Certainly I suspect they'd respect him more. The guy's kind of 
begging to be sucked up to for rewards.

So yeah, this is one of those places I think show just how little 
the book says about bigotry, because Slughorn's stated bigotry gets 
defended because he's not killing anybody and has no stomach for 
Death Eater-dom. The fact that he promoted what seems to be the 
whole core group of DEs doesn't count--his house was "hijacked" out 
from under him by Tom Riddle. If only he hadn't come along they 
would have had Slughorn's polite bigotry. Tom ruined it by making it 
violent. I see the two as connected at base, others don't. 

Mike:
> As to Sluggy's special treatment of the talented, Irene already 
> addressed that quite well. I'll just add that Harry sure seemed to 
> change his opinion of Sluggy once Sluggy began praising Harry's 
> (unearned) potions brilliance. I don't think Harry began to "like" 
> Slughorn, but he no longer found him exactly disagreeable. And 
> uninvited is not the same as rejected. Sluggy has just as much 
right 
> as anyone else to associate with whom he pleases on his own time. 
Not 
> everyone gets to be on the Quidditch team either.

Magpie:
Err...and that's good? That Harry first bristled at Slughorn stating 
that his mother surprised him by being talented because she was a 
Muggleborn, and then softened up after the guy praised him for 
talent he didn't have, which he chalked up to his blood? I know some 
might think I'm being too hard on Harry, or expecting him to be a 
goody-two-shoes, but if somebody's supposed to be a hero in a book 
against bigotry, I'd expect him to reject his own priviledge not be 
charged with defending the status quo. I certainly wouldn't expect a 
book whose villain is defined by bigoted belief to lead to the 
conclusion that the attitude we see Slughorn expressing and acting 
on is harmless. Though this isn't the only place where I feel the 
same kind of disconnect in the books.

-m






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