Likeable Slughorn (was: Villain!Dumbledore )

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 177859

Magpie:
<SNIP>
> There's no difference at all made between Muggle-born kids and 
other 
> kids.  <SNIP>

Alla:

And who argues that there is a difference? Of course not, I agree.


Magpie:
<SNIP>
> I just really think something's wrong when this is the central 
trait 
> of the bad guy, the bad idea he appeals to in people, yet we're 
> defending it in the end due to Slughorn.  

Alla:

*I* am not defending this in Slughorn, I am just saying that as long 
as he does not **act** on this idea, I refuse to consider him to be 
bad person, just a person with some prejudice ideas in his head, 
which he IMO is aware and tries to get rid of. Speculating obviously.

 
> Magpie:
> He cultivates talent if it will help him. And he cultivates plenty 
of 
> otehr things that are equally important to him, like family 
> connections--these things can be more important than talent 
depending 
> on the situation. That's why to me focusing on "he promotes 
talent!" 
> seems to me to be wanting him to be something he isn't.

Alla:

Yeah, he does cultivate connections too. I do not see that it is more 
important to him than talent. IMO of course.

magpie:
 He's fine 
> promoting people with good bloodlines over people with talent if 
> talent hasn't gotten them into the Slug Club to begin with.

Alla:

And that I see no proof at all in canon. I see no proof that talent 
with no connection will not get you the pass to his club. Obviously 
there is no guarantee that Slughorn's eye will notice EVERY talented 
kid, simply because he is one person, but every talent Slughorn sees 
he invites, no?


Magpie:
 I also 
> don't think his excluding Draco should be taken as the kind of sign 
it 
> seems taken as. He doesn't want kids of Death Eaters because he's 
> afraid of Death Eaters. I don't see that means anything more than 
> that. I don't think it's a big deal any time he doesn't put a 
> Pureblood in his club.

Alla:

What? You do not think it is a big deal every time he does not invite 
a pureblood in his club? You also do not think that it is a big deal 
when he takes Muggleborns in his club?

It seems to me that if one goes by this argument, it is impossible to 
prove that Slugghorn is not bigoted towards muggleborns, or at least 
that he does not act upon his prejudices.

Because funnily both that he takes the group he allegedly bigoted 
against in his club AND that he does NOT always take the group that 
he allegedly bigoted towards in his club, do not count as evidence.

Okay. What evidence would be acceptable then?

Magpie: 
> Nor does he cultivate the talent that I see, he just networks 
people 
> that catch his eye. At least that's not what I consider cultivating 
> talent. Sometimes talented kids get perks from Slughorn, that's 
great. 
> That doesn't make him "the teacher who cultivates talent" for me by 
a 
> longshot. To me he seems like he's probably far more likely to be 
> helping to fill jobs with those who are well-connected already over 
> those who might be more talented. That's how Cormac seems to see it 
> too.


Alla:

To me helping to get jobs for talented kids does count as cultivating 
talent. IMO of course.